Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Electrogoth

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 08:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Electrogoth

Electrogoth (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

newly coined neologism + I can't find any reliable sources to define it. none are given by the article TheDarknessVisible 19:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• Redirect to Electroclash, as everyone (except the writer of this article, apparently) has called it for the last five years (bracing myself for 200 messages from aggrieved teenagers as to why the two are completely and totally different and I couldn't possibly understand) - iridescenti (talk to me!) 19:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Electroclash isn't Electrogoth! It's an established term for a techno-inspired music style blended with a modern gothic attitude. You should to listen to Blutengel, Cephalgy, Das Ich, Tristesse de la Lune, Mondsucht, L'âme Immortelle, ASP etc.. All these music groups are neither Goth Rock nor Dark Wave. --~Menorrhea 19:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

"modern gothic" also seems like a neologism. we can not listen to these bands and make a judgement, that would constitute original research. I've been looking through music magazines and online and I can't find a reliable source describing what electrogoth music is. Online I find all kinds of references pointing back to the wiki article. But nothing independant of wiki. this seems like the very reason wiki does not allow newly coined neologisms.TheDarknessVisible 20:09, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

In my personal opinion the gothy end of the electroclash spectrum - Ju Ju Babies, Mechanical Cabaret and all the other pies Misty Woods has had her fingers in over the years - are indistinguishable from electrogoth - the only difference I can see is that one lot play their gigs at the Devonshire Arms and the other goes across the road to the Underworld. - iridescenti (talk to me!) 20:43, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

This is electrogoth, ugly and techno-inspired: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uzm9d2l_B4

Most of these music groups come from Germany and Austria. Maybe you're living on the dark side of the moon... --~Menorrhea 21:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

• Or maybe we're living in a world where all kinds of music from almost all parts of the world get circulated, and where even the "ugly" varieties grow a small fan base, but where music genres still require multiple non-trivial mentions in reliable sources to get their articles kept in Wikipedia. Delete or redirect per research cited by TheDarknessVisible not showing anything closer to the reliable sources policy than fanzines. Barno 23:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep. Scene magazines like "Orkus", "Sonic Seducer" and "Zillo" covering Electrogoth bands do not count? It's an established genre and it is not the same as Electroclash - they sound quite different and the latter has absolutely no connection to the Goth subculture, does it? Luckz 16:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

This article doesn't cite a single one of them (or anything else) - iridescenti (talk to me!) 16:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I have an orkus magazine. Issue #3. It covers the bands. Okus has interviews with both Terminal Choice and Diary of Dreams. it doesn't call them electrogoth and the word is notable by its absense. the alleged connection to goth subculture is irrelevant. We are not debating the merits of the label. We are debating the notability of it, whether its a neologism, and whether this article meets wiki guidelines.TheDarknessVisible 18:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete But no need to redirect to Electroclash. Electroclash is the standard form for the type of music being (badly) described here, but nobody else uses the term Electrogoth so a redirect from a page nobody would look up is not necessary. Worth bearing in mind that Neogoth is up for deletion under similar circumstances. A1octopus 15:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

• I vote Delete by the way. I didn't know if that is obvious from the fact that I nominated it. Online I find contradictory uses of the term by only unreliable sources. I haven't found a single reliable independant source to define it. This is a non-notable neologism (basically slang) which seems to have a very ambiguous meaning, which chages from person to person. I've seen it applied to switchblade symphony, wumpscut and then also to bands which seem to be literally techno such as the one in the video Menorrhea pointed us to. I dont see how this could be a music genre, and I personally believe wumscut and switchblade fans would find that electroclash video quite outside their musical tastes. The only REMOTELY reliable reference I've seen said that electrogoth is a pseudonym for darkwave. but said darkwave is the proper term (and even said to ignore people who insist electrogoth isn't darkwave). this source is ishkurs guide to electronic music. (but he also denies being reliable).. to me its a descriptive term which kids around the world are hearing on the grape vine and just applying to whatever electronic music they encounter which happens to seem 'goth' to them, and they assume that it must have been what that word "electrogoth" was a reference to. journalists and researchers dont seem to feel any inclination to use this term TheDarknessVisible 17:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete it. Dark Wave described the music of the 1980s, and in the 1980s there was not techno or trance sound. I don't like this electrogoth music, but in Germany "goth"-bands with a strong techno influence used the term. This music is made by so-called "goth" people. But the main problem is that this music bears no relation to the gothic roots. It's a strange development. No redirect please. --~Menorrhea 21:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

some band using a term merely makes it a neologism. multiple reliable and independant authors must write about it and describe what it is.TheDarknessVisible 18:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

• delete per TheDarknessVisible, who puts it quite well. It is indeed a word, it is indeed used to describe bands, and I'd hold you will actually see the word used in the press, but it doesn't seem to have a solid referent right now - people will use it to describe anything. I'd gladly spend an hour finding references for the article if it had a meaning, but right now I don't think it does. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 22:20, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
• PS, "ELECTROGOTH" IS IN NO WAY "ELECTROCLASH". DO NOT MERGE. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 22:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.