Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/El Hormiguero

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. All of the nominator's points have been quickly and strongly refuted, and the debate has been unanimously sided towards keeping the article. The debate already has a snowball's chance in hell of producing a delete result, so I'm being bold and I'm closing it early. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 08:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] El Hormiguero

El Hormiguero (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Subject is a non notable tv show from Spain. It fails Wikipedia:Television_episodes content guidelines. There are no google news results once you do a google search and strip out blogs, youtube/google video, wiki clones, and the tv network cuatro who hosts it, you find more references to Nicaragua than you do the TV show. It has not "received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject."

Lets apply WP:NF (I realize this is TV not film but some of the criteria should be similar).

1: The film (TV Show) is widely distributed and has received full length reviews by two or more nationally known critics.
Widely distributed, nope, only airs in Spain. Youtube rebroadcasts dont count. Reviews by critics, cant find any see my google searching above.
2: The film (TV Show) is historically notable
Only began airing in 2006, nope not historically notable.
3: The film (TV Show) has received a major award for excellence
Nope cant find any awards.
4: The film (TV Show) was selected for preservation in a national archive.
Too early to tell if it will be. WP:NOT a Crystal Ball after all.
5: The film (TV Show) is "taught" as a subject at an accredited university or college with a notable film program.
Highly unlikely.

 ALKIVAR™ ☢ 05:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep - How does it fail WP:Television Episode if it is not an Episode? I don't see any criteria about Television Series that it fails. And applying WP:NF to a television show is a bit of a bad call, since the standards are different. The359 05:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - To expand, a TV show shown throughout the whole of Spain would count, to me, as wide distrubition. Is it a requirement for it to be aired internationally to be notable? As for claiming it should be deleted for lacking historical notability, being taught in a college, for being preserved in a national archive...I think 90% of television fails those. The359 05:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Even AGF WP:NF is applicable (and I agree with The359 that it's not really), "widely distributed" does not mean international distribution. The show is broadcast on a major national Spanish network, that's as widely distributed as it needs to be. Wl219 05:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Applying WP:MOVIE to a TV show is an argument totally filled with fallacy. It's not a movie. You may as well apply WP:BASEBALL to it. It's a network show on a Spanish network. Of course you're going to have trouble finding English news links about it. However, if you search "El Hormiguero" and "Cuatro", you come up with almost 300,000 Google hits. Nevertheless, it is a nationally broadcast program in Spain and therefore notable. Not to mention, it's the 2,000,000th Wikipedia article. Now, I know that's not a keep reason...but, it should be noted. Smashville 05:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep It airs on a national network in Spain, of course it's notable. It's not a youtube production made in someone's bedroom. The nomination is nonsensical. Nick mallory 05:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment (from creator of article) - El Hormiguero is one of the biggest successes Cuatro has had since its inception, and it is trying to copy its success throughout its schedule. (See the references in the article) There are numerous Spanish reviews/articles about it (search google.es), and a content distribution agreement with YouTube would seem to qualify as distribution. Also, it doesn't make sense to apply the notability criteria for cinema to a television program. I understand that this being a possible candidate for the two millionth article has gotten this article quite a bit of publicity within Wikipedia, making it the ideal candidate for testing notability guidelines. (Jordanhill Railway Station was nominated for deletion as well, if I recall correctly) However, just because a subject is not known in the United States doesn't mean that it isn't notable. Zzxc 05:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • 'Keep - No google news but 441,000 regular google (in quotes) but it means 'the anthill' in spanish so maybe a lot of those are not related to show. Wikipedia has many more less notable shows and movies with their own articles. Even future episodes of notable shows do. If those qualify surely this slightly un-notable qualifies. Just because it is not notable in your region doesn't mean it isn't en españa. --Henry W. Schmitt 05:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment (from creator of article) - There are no news hits for news.google.com, but there are results for news.google.es: [1] Again, this is a Spanish subject, so it doesn't make sense to look in United States news reports to establish its notability. Zzxc 05:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment Thanks for the link I meant to look at Google España but didn't. This is further proof and doesn't help the nominator's argument. -Henry W. Schmitt 05:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I think this argument would apply here. As others have already commented, just because a subject is relatively unknown among English-speakers should not - in fact, I'll go so far as to say "does not" - suggest that it is not notable. Algebra 05:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Raul654 05:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per the above. Notable in Spanish television. — xDanielx T/C 06:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep You should have tried a Lexis-Nexis search for non-English sources. I found a bunch of reasonably lengthy articles from El Pais and El Mundo. Zagalejo 06:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Addendum There are 90 Google news archives results for "El Hormiguero" + "Motos". This was just a lazy AFD. Zagalejo 07:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep The comment on its distribution sounds like systemic bias to me; were it broadcast in a single country that spoke English that would not have been called into question. Atropos 06:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Seeing as it is neither a movie nor an individual episode, the notability guidelines cited do not apply. Even if you considered them to apply, considering it non-notable because it "only airs in Spain" is a sign of systematic bias against articles about non-English topics. Would you nominate a series for deletion because it "only airs in the US"? --Micpp 07:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.