Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edip Yuksel 2

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep (11 legitimate votes to keep, 7 to delete including the nominator). -- BD2412 ^talk 06:01, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edip Yuksel

This VFD was incorrectly created from the old page and was inadvertently closed as I was working to close out the June 24 VFDs. I've created a new VFD page. FCYTravis 5 July 2005 21:27 (UTC)

This page has been deleted repeatedly after going through VfD at least once (old VfD nomination at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Edip Yuksel). However, consensus at WP:VFU was for undeletion, so I have undeleted and brought it back here. -- ALoan (Talk) 5 July 2005 14:42 (UTC)

• Comment Feel free to read the full proceedings at VfU and the VfD linked above, but it should be noted that the consensus was that the first VfD was improper or at least confusing. Most voted to delete as a recreation of deleted material. However, it was not brought up until the very end that the original delete was a speedy, not a VfD. I will be actively working to improve this article this week, as will a number of other users. With that said, I am not sure how notable this individual is in the grand scheme, and the article may be more trouble than it's worth (there are several people who are strongly committed to pushing a non-encyclopedic, POV version of the article.) I inserted myself into the VfU proceedings since I felt process was not followed, but since VfD is about content, I will abstain. No vote. --MikeJ9919 5 July 2005 15:03 (UTC)

• Keep Add appropriate tags (I'll do it) until cleanup is complete, but this is clearly a notable person who should have an entry. -Harmil 5 July 2005 15:06 (UTC)

• Keep notable in his country.  Grue  5 July 2005 15:07 (UTC)

• Abstain since I can't read the foreign-language google hits; however, what I can read seems very much like shameless self-promotion. If someone could say something about the foreing language stuff, I would like to change my vote to reflect that... --Scimitar 5 July 2005 15:08 (UTC)

• Keep - I believe he is a borderline case but I think he should be kept. However, we should not let his recent Qur'an alone activities overshadow the whole article since they are not what brought around most of his notoriety. gren 5 July 2005 15:28 (UTC)

• Keep - See discussion at VfU. He is certainly prominent, though the page needs, I think, another coat of paint. BrandonYusufToropov 5 July 2005 15:40 (UTC)

• Keep - Not only is Edip's prominence well known, he is the intellectual successor of Rashad Khalifa whose ideas have sent and continue to send shock waves through the Muslim world. The God Alone (Quran alone) movement is headed in great part by the ideas of Edip whose work in this area is prolific. He has been a significant contributor in much of Rashad's major ideas in his later years.

• Delete, unless radically improved: Still sounds like POV, promotion. Unless this article is cleaned up greatly, this should be deleted. From what I see thru searching, it looks like he is not that much notable. --Ragib 5 July 2005 15:54 (UTC)
  • Just to clarify my position (in response to user:idmkhizar's comments on my vote below), I base my opinion on Google search on this, and not on any religious viewpoint. Thanks. --Ragib 5 July 2005 18:37 (UTC)

• Keep - It is good to see the article restored finally. And "ragib" i believe that you are a sunni or shia Muslim who doesnt like Quran Aloners and thats why you want this article deleted. Is that so or am i wrong? If thats true then i suggest you should take a look at the "sahih" hadith you endorse at http://www.y19.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=109. Quran Aloners are peaceful people and promote world peace and understanding and we believe that the Quran Alone is the ultimate guide to achieve this goal NOT the hadith. -- user:idmkhizar
  • Khizar, I've said it before and I'll say it again...you're really shooting yourself in the foot with this one. I suggest you read Wikipedia:No personal attacks, as it is official policy here. Ragib is welcome to his opinion, as are you. What you are not welcome to do is attack another user...if anything, that is likely to turn community opinion against you. Just calm down and build up the article...as long as it remains neutral (as I believe it now is), the community feels that Yuksel is notable, and this contains information about the full spectrum of his work (not just Qur'an Alone), then I'm sure it will be kept. --MikeJ9919 5 July 2005 18:30 (UTC)

• Delete - No one considered Edip noteworthy before he discovered Wikipedia and commenced on a campaign of self-glorification. Even the editors saying that the article should be kept base their view on Edip's own claims to be a best-selling Turkish author, which I do not regard as substantiated. If a Turkish-speaking Wikipedian (who is NOT connected in any way with Edip Yuksel or the United Submitters) shows up here and says that "Yeah, that guy, he's notorious in Turkey", then I'll say he's notable. Given that Edip proudly lists as publications material that was put out by the United Submitter press -- which is tantamount to vanity publication -- I do not trust his assertions re publications in Turkish. Zora 5 July 2005 22:44 (UTC)
  • Khizar- Zora for the last time it was me Khizar Zamurrad Janjuah who set up his article. It is entirely my work. Edip has nothing to do with it. So blame me if you wanna but leave Edip out. Hes compltetly innocent of anything that went on here. Do u hear me? And i dont agree with ur point. He is famous more than Ali Sina, who doesnt even show his face? Aint it dumb to allow a person's article whose very identity aint even known? U dont know who tht guy is. There might be an organization behind his name which maybe chritsian or anti islam anti Quran orientied. But no anyone whos against Quran he has to be promoted no matter whether hes famous or not. N Edip who has struggled all is life, is so famous, has published so many books, has had so many live debates on TV and aint even scared to give out his phone number, picture and location u consider him of no worth. This makes me mad u know. Here Zora, take a look at this from Ali Sinas article: Sina quotes:
    • "Islam is not a religion of love but a doctrine of hate." [2]
    • "The ultimate goal of Islam is to rule the world; Islam is political and political Islam is fascism." [3]
    • "Islam is a house of cards that will collapse if sufficiently pushed." [4]

    How come sina is allowed to make such quotes n self promotion and on Edips article u dont allow his views to be expressed in a neutral form? Wht kind of nonsense is this? Can u explain this to me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.130.89.24 (talk • contribs) 5 July 2005 22:58 (UTC)

• • • • Khizar: This is not a chat room. These rants are not only inappropriate here, which may or may not bother you, but very likely to encourage people to vote against your position. Also, as a housekeeping note, you can sign and date your posts by using four tildes -- this is a tilde ~ -- at the end of what you want to say. BrandonYusufToropov 6 July 2005 15:24 (UTC)

• • • Well, this passionate rebuttal and arguments should actually go to Wikipedia Talk:Votes for deletion/Edip Yuksel 2 instead of this page. --Ragib 6 July 2005 01:05 (UTC)
      • Comment: Actually, it should not go to the Talk page. The Talk pages for VfD discussions are not used. The anon user's comments may strike you as a rant but this is the correct place to express his/her opinion. Rossami (talk)
      • Comment 2: The anon user should know that as a procedural safeguard, opinions expressed by anonymous users are steeply discounted during the decision-making process. Verifiable facts and evidence and well-reasoned arguments which contribute to the discussion are, however, welcome and encouraged. Rossami (talk) 6 July 2005 02:20 (UTC)

• Delete - Aaron Brenneman 6 July 2005 04:46 (UTC) Not Notable. While clearly this is an issue that some feel passionate about, please:
  • Be brief if you can.
  • If we must use Google, at least use Google News use it wisely. Wikipedia:Google test
    • Google for "Aaron Brenneman" yeilds 38 hits, ""Edip Yuksel" yields 3,690 - so his name 100 times more notable than mine?
    • Google News search gives both our names zero results - so maybe we're the same after all.
  • Thus can we please debate this in some other fashion? Published works, speaking at reputable conference, etc.

• Delete notability not established. JamesBurns 6 July 2005 06:46 (UTC)

• Delete, notability not established. Radiant_>|< July 6, 2005 10:25 (UTC)

• Keep notability well established. Just visit [1]. Also you'll find more than 15000 entries for Edip Yuksel at yahoo.com -- user:Hasan Ozturk

Just a small comment on that, if I create a website on my name promoting myself, would I become notable overnight? Most entries I find for Yuksel in google are from his website, wikipedia mirrors, or newsgroups where he posted himself. Also searching for "Edip Yuksel" return 3600 entries in google. --Ragib 6 July 2005 10:34 (UTC)

• Note: User's first edit . --Ragib 6 July 2005 11:01 (UTC)

• Keep, Edip Yuksel is very notable as he was famous former Turkish sunni scholar -- user:avalanche361 July 6, 2005 10:57 (UTC)

• Note: User's first edit . --Ragib 6 July 2005 11:01 (UTC)
• Another note: while I keep hearing how notable and famous he was before he started on his Qur'an Alone campaign, I haven't seen anyone try to expand the article with any of his views or commentary on that score. I think this article has potential, but I'm getting the feeling that those who might know more about it are reluctant to expound on that for fear of drawing interest away from Qur'an Alone. I may be wrong, but that's my impression. avalanche361, if you know more about this topic, please feel free to add to the article. --MikeJ9919 6 July 2005 22:14 (UTC)

Note: It is quite possible we won't see a lot of Muslims contribute constructively to this article. The anti-hadith views Edip are espousing are widely regarded as heretical, so mainstreamers may choose not to associate themselves with him -- or, contrariwise, choose to throw tomatoes. Edip is also keen to discuss and draw attention to mathematical miracles within the Qur'an, which most middle-of-the-road Muslims see as a distraction (at best) and/or part of a campaign to remove two verses from the Qur'an (at worst -- this latter view of the text is, again, widely seen as heresy). I don't know why Qur'an-alone people would avoid the article. BrandonYusufToropov 6 July 2005 22:40 (UTC)

Khizar- Hi Brandon. Well i suggest Muslims should think about the fact that a law cannot be proven to exist unless someone tries to break it. Now since GOD states in the Quran that He'll protect it He thus made it a law. So actually now that people tried to inject false verses GOD in His Infinite Wisdom and Mercy showed through one of His messengers RK by the mathematical pattern nbased on no 19 in Quran that these two verses do not belong into Quran. Now one may ask "why was it allowed for 1400 years". I can only say that i dont know the exact reason but maybe GOD knew that most of the people in that time were corrupt anyway and didnt deserve the real Quran whereas for those little who were honest He had other ways of informing them of the true Quran which we today dont know off and it is unimportant. Whats important is the signs of GOD that we have right now. Ive also written an article on this at The difference btw Quran/Dhikr ans the Mushaf

• Keep. Seems to have been some kind of campaign to delete this article. Not amusing. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 6 July 2005 18:44 (UTC)

• Only as part of the more general campaign to eliminate all vanity crap non encyclopedic content from WKP. SickOfMyNameSoUsingPseudonym 7 July 2005 23:41 (UTC)

• Keep No reason for deletion what so ever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.182.85 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 6 July 2005 (anon vote copied to correct location)

• Note: User's first edit. - Pseudonym 7 July 2005 23:41 (UTC)

• Keep He seems like a fairly important guy. From what I've read so far, there are much less prominent/famous people that have been kept.Heraclius 7 July 2005 16:32 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable scholar. CDC (talk) 8 July 2005 23:42 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.