Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Early Deaths in Professional Wrestling

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 02:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early Deaths in Professional Wrestling

Early Deaths in Professional Wrestling (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

WP:LC. Completely inapproprtae considering the article List of deceased professional wrestlers was deleted. Just make a category of deceased pro wrestlers and it can serve the same purpose. This is also a considereable arguable title considering there's no clear definition on what an "Early Death" would be. — Moe 21:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

If you want to add something about entertainers death's try Category:Entertainers by cause of death or something similar. Try to add as much as possible to existing categories. Creating categories for deceased/living people are deleted frequently. — Moe 23:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • What is the problem with this article? After looking at it, it appears that a lot of wrestlers die at an early age; enough to justify a Wiki article, that's for sure. User:63.215.121.10
Problem is we had past articles about this and it didn't fly with us before. — Moe 00:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete is impossibly POV. There is no objective standard as to what constitutes an "early death." Otto4711 05:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: It gives undue weight to deaths in the Pro Wrestling business as compared to other high stress athletic fields like Pro Boxing, Football, Basketball or Baseball (why isn't there a list for these sports? - Pro Boxing would have an even worse record IMHO since its not staged). The POV contention is of course, participation in Pro Wrestling causes "early" (ill defined) death which is not proven (compared to other sports/professions). The only death I can see on the list that can be directly pinned on Pro Wrestling is Owen Hart's accidental death from a wrestling stunt gone wrong. --Eqdoktor 09:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: It's POV (how "early death" is defined) and possibly OR. Sure, a significant number of notable pro wrestlers had drug problems that may have been a cause of death, but it's not really encyclopedia-worthy to list all of them together (or perhaps categorize them together). Even an article on steroids in pro wrestling I don't think would be good enough to keep (because the well-known cases are for wrestlers who have appeared in the "big league" promotions, which of course is not indicative of the industry as a whole - after all, WWE makes use of an extensive travelling schedule more than the average indy promotion). kelvSYC 19:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I hadn't checked this page in a while; I was busy working like normal people do. The fact remains that the 40 plus people mentioned in this Wiki article died early deaths. What are you people debating about?
  • This isn't a category, and it doesn't have to be a list. I would say that, if a couple paragraphs can be added to this, and then the list of wrestlers is at the bottom of the article, that should be alright. If you have to, rename the article to "Professional wrestlers who died before age 50." That would get around the whole "what qualifies as an early death?" debate.
  • If there can be lists of sexual positions, and lists of "Nintendo games that feature Mario as a character", why should this article be the subject of such scrutiny.
  • First, please sign your posts by adding four tildes ~~~~ after your comments. Second, there is a strong consensus against either listing or categorizing people on the basis of their being alive or dead (with the exception of Category:Living people which is maintained for legal reasons). Third, regardless of what age is selected it is an arbitary standard of inclusion. Finally, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS (lists of Mario games or sexual positions) are not justification for this article. Otto4711 22:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • So, you're saying, "You can't have lists about people that are alive or dead... unless they're alive" ???
  • What I'm saying is sign your frickin' posts, first of all. It's four keystrokes, it's not that difficult. And I'm saying that listing people on the basis of whether they are alive or dead is not done here. Otto4711 01:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment:*The problem I have with this article is that it (IMHO) gives the biased point of view impression that the Pro-wrestling business "causes early deaths". Its not balanced and rather unfair to the industry. It doesn't take much effort to selectively cherry pick a bunch of deceased wrestlers, put them in a list without any context whatsoever and call it "Early deaths in professional wrestling" - You might as well retitle this article "Pro wrestling causes early deaths", in which case it will be speedily deleted as a biased attack article. There is no context to this list, as I have stated in my comments above - a biased cherry picked list of dead people is simply not encyclopedic and does not warrant inclusion in Wikipeadia. I can selectively list early deaths in any number of professions (lawyers, doctors, policemen, insurance adjusters etc.) and give the false impression that n-profession causes short life-spans. --Eqdoktor 03:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Go ahead and try to come up with a list of lawyers that died early deaths. You won't be able to come up with 50 people that were significant enough to be mentioned on wikipedia in the first place. There is a list on wiki titled "People that committed suicide by gun." This could just be thought of as "People that committed suicide by working over 330 days per year, for 15 years straight, then had their heart explode." Is it really so different?
  • Comment - a search for "People that committed suicide by gun" turns up no results. Otto4711 06:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • There is a wiki page titled, "Poltergeist curse" that lists actors/actresses that died early deaths that all happened to work on the Poltergeist films. Are they implying that working on a movie makes you die? If so, should that article be removed? By nazi logic, the answer is yes. - Nate Jibb

keep The poltergeist argument is pretty solid. What if this article gets renamed "The wrestling curse"? Will you guys/gals finally get off my nuts at that point?Wfresch 04:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Arguing for the retention of one shitty article based on the existence of another shitty article, also known as WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, is not too terribly impressive. Otto4711 04:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Per above. There is really no need for this type of list. Govvy 12:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

keep Noteworthy, controversial. This subject comes up in the press every time there's an 'untimely' death in the sport. At those times, people curious about the subject would surely find a categorized list like this useful and informative. At other times, the article will serve to educate those who are unaware that there's a controversy about the subject. Gooshy 16:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment: Its exactly lists like these that gives Wikipedia a bad reputation. Its biased, unverified, does not cite any serious independent source links pro-wrestling to early deaths - its all self researched. Just how many basic Wikipedia encycopedic rules does this article break? People who are curious about about pro-wrestling and other subject matters can be better served than with a WP:POV biased and out-of-context list like this. Without context on each and every wrestler's death, this list is useless - just what can be inferred from bladder cancer deaths (John Tenta)? What of other pro-wrestlers that have retired and gone on (or will go on) to have higher than average median life expectancy lives? Even if the article originator is out to prove a connection between pro-wrestling and early deaths (nothing wrong with writing such an article - you just need to meet the Wikipedia guidelines of WP:NOR and WP:V), a list like this is laziest and the worst possible way to present such information.--Eqdoktor 03:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: Ha ha, right. It's lists like this that give wikipedia its shitty reputation. It couldn't be the anal photo rules, or the army of douche bags that nit-pick every new article. Eat a bowl of dicks, bro.
  • Delete. A lot of wrestlers die in unusual circumstances, and this page will thus inevitably result in potentially libellious conjecturing. McPhail 17:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment.

  • What is the cut-off point for "early death"? Does it relate to Average Life Expectancy? If so, is this taken into account for the wrestler's nationality, gender, ethnic group and country living in at time of death? If not then why not?
  • Does this section cover promoters and managers?
  • Does this section cover deaths that have nothing to do with wrestling (e.g. car crash)?
  • Does this section cover wrestlers from present day right back to the beginning of professional wrestling? If so, when is pro-wrestling counted as being in existance from? Suriel1981 01:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nomination. Normy132 04:32, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.