Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Durmus Kumdereli

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep (no consensus). After the translation, the reason for deleting based on the article being in German is now mute. Apart from that there is a notability discussion between two people. Ironically, it was Lord Malthusian, who wanted this deleted, who wound up saving it... that's the way things work here. :-) Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Durmus Kumdereli

Foreign language article; looks like German. I ran it through an online translator, and it doesn't appear to be *that* significant. Depending on its significance, I suppose it should either be deleted or moved to the German Wikipedia. --Spring Rubber 09:07, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• Submit to page needing translation and take it from there. I don't feel comfortable deleting something a nominator can't read themselves. I do know it's indeed German, but I can't get much further myself. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:55, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
• It is German, and although I haven't got time to translate it word-for-word right now, it's about a Turkish driver who was supposedly shot in Iraq for not being a good Muslim (he couldn't read Arabic). No sources and WP:NOT a memorial, so Delete. I'll put a full translation up here later for the benefit of other voters. --Last Malthusian 10:12, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki to German Wikipedia. Now translated, abstain because I can't make up my mind whether it's notable or not.Stifle 11:52, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
• Translation:Drmus Kmdereli (sic) was a Turkish HGV driver who transported goods to Americans working in Iraq for his firm. He fell into an ambush, however, and was kidnapped. The fact that he was of Turkish origin and of the same religion as his abductors was at first an advantage. The abductors gave Durmus the possibility to prove that he was a good Muslim, by putting a Koran in front of him and asking him to read a few verses. Durmus, however, was unable to do this, as he came from Turkey and Arabic script was completely strange to him. In Turkey only religious people learn this writing technique, which nowadays is only useful in mosques. This led the abductors to believe that Durmus was a 'bad Muslim', because he couldn't read Arabic. In good humour they fatally shot him instead of decapitating him. Durmus was married with two children.

I've replaced the original text with this translation, but I still think it should be deleted. Sadly, foreigners being kidnapped and murdered in Iraq are too thick on the ground (or under it) to be notable. --Last Malthusian 13:14, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• Comment The man apparently existed. There was a video of his death, circulated by the usual suspects, and plenty of news besides, including on the BBC (from September 2004). If it's kept, it's inaccurate; from the Google summaries it seems he was beheaded, but I am most certainly not going to download the video to check. Still don't think he qualifies as notable. I remember one or two hostages who appeared in insurgency videos and made national news, but not this one. Perhaps he was in the news more in Turkey, in which case a transwiki to the Turkish WP would be appropriate, but we'd need a Turk to confirm that. --Last Malthusian 13:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
• If he was much in the news in Turkey, at least if the case caused some significant discussion in Turkish media on the general situation for Turks in Iraq, we should keep the translation in the English Wikipedia, but I can easily see it being merged with a more geneal topic at some point in the future. u p p l a n d 21:13, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment He doesn't seem to be a particularly high-profile victim. Kenneth Bigley, who was on the news a lot, gets 104,000 hits on Google. Durmus Kumdereli gets a 'mere' 3,410. --Last Malthusian 13:10, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Turkey probably can't compare with Western Europe or North America in terms of internet access. We would really need somebody who reads Turkish papers or watches Turkish TV to comment. u p p l a n d 13:24, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
      • Turkey probably has fewer Internet users as a proportion of population, but it's hardly a technological backwater. And it has a bigger population than Britain. So if he was as notable as Ken Bigley I would still expect him to turn up more hits than 1/33rd of Bigley's - I admit I'm combining two extremely inexact sciences here, but there isn't really an alternative. If he was on Turkish news to the same extent that Ken Bigley was on English news, then I would vote to keep, but I've seen no evidence of that. --Last Malthusian 02:14, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.