Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dmitry Kuzmin (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dmitry Kuzmin

Dmitry Kuzmin (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Not notable. Completely unknown in Russia as a poet. Hasn't published a single collection of poems, nor has he poems published in any major Russian magazine. He has mostly published his ARTICLES and TRANSLATIONS from American poetry. I have no problems with him being gay but he is listed here as a well-known poet, which he isn't. Far from it. It is hard to understand how come this article has been here that long. Don't confuse him with Mikhail Kuzmin, the prominent Russian poet of the beginning of the 20th century who well deserves to be listed in Wikipedia (incidentally, Mikhail Kuzmin was also Homosexual). The only claim for notability is the Andrey Bely Prize for his contribution as an ORGANISER of literary events. Come on, if we start listing all the organisers of poetry evenings as great poets, this will be the end of WikipediaWickedPetya 06:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess the new User:WickedPetya wants this afd [1]. My own feeling are neutral wikipedia can live without this article, but addition of this article does not harm it in any way `Alex Bakharev 06:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Note: WickedPetya added a new nomination to the end of the first; moving his text here. —Celithemis 06:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

link to first AFD

  • Keep has an entry in Russian wiki - [2]. Catchpole 11:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: He has, indeed, and it is very critical of him. Quoting from there: "Dmitry Kuzmin is a former administrator of Russian Wikipedia (January 2006 - August 2006). He was banned from Wikipedia in August 2006 by the Arbitrary Board of Russian Wikipedia for repetedly offending writers and abusing his power as administrator. Several cases resulted in court cases against Dmirty Kuzmin". Further on, Russian Wiki says: "Many prominent Russian critics described him as untalented writer, notably Dmitry Bykov, Mikhail Kotomin, and Marina Kulakova. Dmitry Bykov calls his work "a schoolboy's poetry". In the quoted article the critic goes on to say that there's no point in discussing Dmitry Kuzmin, as this man only wrote a few poems lacking any glimpse of originality, and hasn't published anything significant yet. He hasn't authored even one book. WickedPetya 22:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep for the same reasons he was kept the first time, but I want to add that the way he is quoted in this German article, suggests he was rather notable in 2001. Once notable, always notable - was that not the rule? It is true that Google does not tell the correct story when you google for "Dmitry Kuzmin" (there are others with that name, but he is also named Dimitri Kuzmin, Dmitri Vladimirovitch Kuzmin, ...) but when I google in Cyrillic for "Кузьмин Дмитрий Владимирович " -wiki -Караваев and "Кузьмин Дмитрий Владимирович " -wiki -Караваев (excluding Wikipedia and another older poet with the same name, I get 561 googles. More than a few other people that have an article here. --Pan Gerwazy 12:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment. I made a mistake here. Of course, one of the googles should be for "Дмитрий Владимирович Кузьмин " -wiki -Караваев. Bad copy paste. --Pan Gerwazy 23:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: Disregard this! The German article is not about Dmitry Kuzmin. He is only mentioned briefly as "poet and critic Dmitry Kuzmin", that's all. He is NOT quoted in the article. The man quoted in that paragraph is Jewgeny Gorny, a reputable philologist who comments on the Russian Internet literature, and not on Kuzmin. Anyone who has German can check it up in the article. Any claim of Kuzmin's notability on these grounds is simply not on.WickedPetya 22:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment This is a German journalist interviewing Jewgeny Gorny and asking him out of the blue what he thinks about Dmitry Kuzmin's ideas about Russian literature and the internet. The name Kuzmin is thus mentioned three times in the article. In other words, if Jewgeny Gorny is deemed reputable, in the journalist's eyes Kuzmin is as reputable. This is proof that in 2001 people outside Russia and the former Soviet Union knew about him. Once reputable, always reputable. --Pan Gerwazy 23:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment:Google hits for Dmitry Kuzmin: 2 (two!) In Russian, "Кузьмин Дмитрий Владимирович": 15 (fifteen!). Pan Gerwazy comes up with 561 hits, however he counts the hits for everybody by the name Kuzmin, which is one of the most common names in Russia. This man is Kuzmin Dmitry Vladimirovich, but Pan Gerwazy counts the links also for Kuzmin Dmitry Valerievich, Dmitry Sergeevich, Dmitry Nikolaevich, etc. What have they got to do with our man? WickedPetya 22:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
        • "Answer: everything. Have a good look at my quote - if you put the three names together between quotation marks, you cannot find what WickedPetya claims, because someone like Kuzmin Dmitry Valerievich will not show up. Note that my googles also exclude Wikipedia mirrors and a guy who by sheer coincidence happens to share the three same names, but who in order to be distinguished from our man, nowadays gets "Караваев" (Karavayev or Karavaev") added to his name. So that WickedPetya understands what I am talking about, I add the two links (we need two links, because there are two main ways of ordering the names):
[3] and[4] Add his pseudonym, which also nets more googles than the 15 the nominator claims: [5]--Pan Gerwazy 23:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete But is he notable for the english wiki? I can't see how. And is there confusion with his name? Let him stay in the russian wiki where it'll serve the most good. --Zedco 12:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Notability is not affected by language or nationality. -- Black Falcon 20:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not notable. Seems to be a journalist listed among poets. Garcia-Fons 22:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
    Seems to be a sock-puppet, whose only edits have been today, to a string of AfDs. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:17, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - we just had an AFD yesterday for this article, and the consensus was keep. Why is this article being nominated again so soon? That's not how this process works. --Haemo 00:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: Because it is a "strong delete" case. Don't know what Caligula made this horse a senator, but it shall be removed, and it will be, sooner or later. WickedPetya 11:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • The previous AFD was actually last May. It was mistakenly relisted for a while yesterday, until I removed it. —Celithemis 00:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Tentative keep. Kevin Moss, editor of an English-language anthology of Russian gay verse, writes: "A few serious gay writers have appeared on the Russian literary scene as well. Among these, the most noteworthy are poets Dmitry Kuzmin and Yaroslav Mogutin, and Alexei Rybikov..." (p. 759 of ISBN 0-815-31880-4) So it appears he has some importance (as a big fish in a small pond perhaps, but even so). There may not be enough English-language sources to write much of an article, but sources don't have to be in English. His history with the Russian Wikipedia is neither here nor there, really. —Celithemis 01:05, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep A poet can be chiefly notable as a translator. . I accept the view above as being a big fish in a little pond, and that is sufficient. We should not be second guessing the quality of his verse--or indeed of his translations. The ru WP article shows him to be a notably difficult literateur, but that's still notable. DGG 07:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment: He might be a translator, but he isn't prolific, nor is he notable - none of his translations were published in book-form. One thing is quite clear: this man isn't a notable poet. Where are his books? His publications in reputable magazines? This pond you're talking about looks more like a puddle, and the smell coming from it isn't very enjoyable. You also talk about the quality of his verse - have you read them? I have (it was hard to find work of this "notable poet", though.) My teenage students write much better, I can assure you. So why is this article here, in the first place? What an amazing string of biased 'keep's!! WickedPetya 11:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong delete Not notable. I've checked the provided links. The nominator is right: there isn't any significant publication of his poetry in Russia. Badvibes101 15:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.