Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dimitris P. Kraniotis

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep, no consensus. SushiGeek 04:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dimitris P. Kraniotis

spam in almost 20 Wikipedias; poorly published author; autobiography -zzz 20:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The author has published a few (minor?) book(let?)s in Greece. A Google search didn't reveal any references to this author besides poets' self-promotion sites and some local sites of his hometown Larissa. See also AfD de:Wikipedia:Löschkandidaten/20._April_2006#Dimitris_P._Kraniotis. ---zzz 21:04, 27 April 2006 (UTC) changed my mind, see end of discussion page. :-) ---zzz 14:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Self-promotion. No third-party references. Corrigann 21:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. Not notable. This AfD discussion was blanked [1] by 195.97.50.102 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) and the AfD tag was also removed [2] from the article by the same vandal. DarthVader 00:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
    • I ran a whois research. All the 195.97.50.* IPs belong to Hellas On Line S.A. located in Greece. Very likely that we're seing Mr. Kraniotis himself at work... ---zzz 19:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, vanity and NN --Deville (Talk) 03:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete self promotion, the same Domain dynamic IP. --MaNeMeBasat 10:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, because the article is correct! Greek poet Dim.P. Kraniotis is in the headline news in Greece (newspapers, sites, TV, big sites). See: News in the National Greek Television ERT [3], the biggest greek newspaper TO VIMA [4], the biggest greek site with news PATHFINDER NEWS [5] and another site with news [6]. ((Unsigned submission by 195.97.50.47))
    • Dear anonymous IP. We're working on an encyclopedia. Please help us improve this arcticle by providing relevant and verifiable sources. It's great that Greek online-media wrote about Dimitris P. Kraniotis. These links might be useful for readers of gr.wikipedia.org. But I'd appreciate more substantial evidence that the article Dimitris P. Kraniotis is relevant for the english-language en.wikipedia.org. ---zzz 19:02, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
    • And just for the fun of it, I babelfished the 4 references above. The only content: DPK is nominated for "Muses Prize". Interesting. But what is this Muses Prize? Here we go: [7] [8]. Is this prize significant enough to justify an article in Wikipedia? In encyclopedical language it boils down to:
      "In 2005 DPK entered four poems into the Muses Prize - Best Poem of Year 2005 contest, organized by amateur writers' online-magazine Muses Review. The poem Fictitious Line (2005) was shortlisted with 12 other nominees."
      OK, this might be interesting for some readers. But really important information is missing on the web page, like how many writers took part? 13? Then the information would boil down to: "DPK published his poems on a website". Not a lot of substance behind all the brouhaha. ---zzz 20:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, See former AfD [[9]]. Finally "de.wikipedia.org" keep the article. From a user of "de.wikipedia.org": "Mr. Kraniotis has indeed published three poetry books, all of them with very respectable publishers. Especially one of them was published by the country's main poetry publishing house ("Ikaros"); it's the same house that has published all the major Greek poets, including the two Greek Nobel Literature laureates, G. Seferis and O. Elytis. His last two books have been published by a smaller house which is sort of a fringe culture specialist but well known and still respectable." ((Unsigned submission by 195.97.50.47))
  • Delete per WP:BLP. Stifle (talk) 23:15, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep I don't know who is the problem of user "-zzz" with greek poet Dimitris P. Kraniotis. Mr "-zzz" other greek poets (Sotiris Kakisis, Dimitris Lyakos, Dimitris Varos) are good for "en.wikipedia.org"? I don't know the greek poets Sotiris Kakisis, Dimitris Varos, Dimitris Lyakos. For the Greeks (Hellenic Literary Society, International Society of Greek Writers), Dimitris P. Kraniotis is a new great poet. ((Unsigned submission by 195.97.50.43))
    • There's no article Dimitris Lyakos. The articles Sotiris Kakisis and Dimitris Varos are also of poor quality, for the same reasons: no verifiable references. But: if you google for Sotiris Kakisis you'll find an IMDB entry [11], a good indicator for relevance. Dimitris Varos produces only poor results: wikipedia entries, webrings, homepage, all the typical self-promotional stuff -- and a deleted WikiQuote entry [12]. Thanks for pointing him out, I'll file an AfD. :-) By the way, we're writing an encyclopedia (you might want to read the Help section to learn more about Wikipedia). If the Hellenic Literary Society appreciates Kraniotis, you should be able to point us to a website with an article that explains the appreciation. Just add it to the "External Links" sections. Ah, and please sign your comments. :-) ---zzz 18:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Sorry, Dimitris Lyacos is the name of the greek poet in "en.wikipedia.org" and in "de.wikipedia.org".
    • Dimitris P. Kraniotis is a full member of the biggest and plus serius literary society of the Greece "Hellenic Literary Society" [13] and his poem "Λόγχες που πληγώνουν" (from his book "Fictitious Line") is No 1 in TOP 20 of the Best and Popular poems in Greece, for 12 months. Others very serius sites in Greece for Dimitris P. Kraniotis: [14], [15]. Awards in Greece to Dimitris P. Kraniotis: In September 2005, Honorary Gold-Silver Plaquette to Dim. P. Kraniotis by the Perfect of Larissa (for first time honorary plaqette to a greek poet) and in December 2005, Honorary Gold-Silver Plaquette to Dim. P. Kraniotis by the Larissa Medical Association “Hippocrates” (for first time honorary plaquette to a doctor for the poetry). In October 2005, “Special Award in Poetry of the Year 2005” to Dim. P. Kraniotis for his book “Fictitious Line” in “1st Poetry Festival of Thessaloniki”, in January 2006, "Gold Medal” and “2nd International Prize in Literature of the year 2005" by the International Society of Greek Writers to Dim. P. Kraniotis for his book "Fictitious Line"(Greece) and in March 2006, “Gold Medal” and “1st Prize in Poetry” by the International Society of Greek Writers to Dim. P. Kraniotis in the “25th Celebration of Poets” (Greece). ((Unsigned submission 23:03, 30 April 2006 195.97.50.190))
    • Dear anonymous IP (or may I call you Dimitris?), please sign your comments (it's done with four tildes), preferably with a username. It is so much friendlier... — I find the article Dimitris Lyacos well written and I like the photo. Perfect for a personal homepage, but not for an encyclopedia. It lacks external references. However, I was able to quickly google the German edition of his poems (and added the reference), so at least the bibliographical data seems to be correct. What I miss most in this article are some links to third party reviews of him and his poetry. — The link to EEL is new, thank you! However, it looks to me just like any other bulletin board. As someone who doesn't understand Greek I was only able to find out that it was founded in 1936. And it doesn't solve my problem: I need external references about you and your work. (I assume you're DPK hiding behind the IP and ignoring what WP:BLP says about notable Wikipedians). It's great that you are a full member of EEL, but unless I know the requirements for membership this doesn't say a thing about your relevance as a poet. I'm a full member of an automobile association but don't even own a car. :-) — I noticed an interesting detail. You say you're editor of Hippocrates. Then you mention a prize you were awarded by Hippocrates. Strange coincidence... — Regarding all the other prices, I'm very well aware of the list in musesreview. Here's the problem verifiabiliy. For example: what is Hippocrates? Is it just a monthly brochure published by some doctors (you and maybe a friend of yours) in some small Larissian hospital? Is it an international journal on pathology? I don't know and I have no way of finding out. (I tried, but failed, because Hippocrates is a rather popular name for medical magazines). — The award list sounds to me like: Anna gave me a gold medal, Bob a first price, and Charlie a special award. Those names by itself mean nothing. — But if you tell me that Anna has written a bestseller on the New York Times list, Bob has won a Nobel Prize for literature and Charlie runs the weekly literature review show on Greeces biggest TV channel and you published the book with London's most prestigious publishing company, I'd take it seriously. So far I was only able to verify Muses Review (very disapointing). I tried Académie Internationale de Lutèce but found only a postal adress. — You are a doctor (at least you claim to be one), so you should be familiar with scientific standards. They apply also to Wikipedia. This includes citations aka references. Prove your claims. ---zzz 00:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Dimitris, just in case you haven't noticed, I do check references. ;-) All I found on EEL is the user dkran [16], who claims to have published three books, be a doctor and a member of various organizations. I found a poem posted by dkran and some unfriendly responses to it (but this might be a misunderstanding because babelfish translates Greek poorly). Does EEL's bulletin board improve my opinion on DPK's qualities as poet? No. Is this the reason why you are so afraid of references? Because they don't stand up to your claims? (I think of the vandalisms of de:Dimitris P. Kraniotis where you, or another 195.97.50.* IP, tries again and again to remove references.) ---zzz 01:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep -- I changed my mind. :-) I think the best way to deal with Dimitris P. Kraniotis is to do what a encyclopedia does best: compile available knowledge. I replaced the article with a version that tells the reader exactly what is verifiable knowledge about him. So if he is notorious enough that "serious" newspapers write about him, it might as well justify an article about him in Wikipedia. Not for his (still unproven) merits as great new poet, but as a future reference for journalists and literary critics who don't have the resources to double-check Mr. Kraniotis public relation claims themselves. The english-language version of this article has the benefit of being most accessible to international readers (unlike the 20 or so other languages where DPK posted his vanity spam). So let's keep this article, but apply Wikipedia quality standards. ---zzz 11:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC) -- In the meantime I received and verified various references. Kraniotis has received only few external reviews for his poetry (just some minor awards) and definitely has an ego-problem. But his publications are for real (National Library of Greece is confirmation enough for me). And there's enough material accessible in English. In my opinion he passes WP:BIO, but just so. The one-line article spam in 19 other Wikipedias is a different story, but I think en:Dimitris P. Kraniotis has improved enough to stay. ---zzz 14:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.