Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diletta Rizzo Marin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Black Kite 18:40, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Diletta Rizzo Marin

Diletta Rizzo Marin (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Delete Although Miss. Marin is undoubtedly a highly talented individual and I am sure will eventually warrant a wikipedia article, I think this article is somewhat premature. She has not yet appeared with a major opera company, instead only at festivals. She also has only performed one major role. She has also not won any major competitions or participated in any significant Young Artist Programs. In short, she is just at the beginning of her career and has not even begun to truly establish herself in the field. At this point she is just one of many up and coming talents who may or may not achieve greatness. I'm not expecting all articles on opera singers to be on ones who are highly famous or sung at the Metropolitan Opera or recorded tons of CDs but I do think that the performer should have at least performed a role with an opera company at some point. A handful of festival appearances and a few magazine articles and a tv appearance that, lets face it, was gotten through family connections hardly seems to me to be noteworthy enough. Nrswanson (talk) 14:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment Although you don't explicitly use the word here, I'm assuming that you have nominated this article for deletion on the grounds that the subject is not notable. If that is the case, then it is important to separate the concept of notability as defined by Wikipedia's guidelines and other concepts such as length and breadth of career, whether or not the singer got engagements because of family connections, whether they were praised or panned by the critics. I'm going to quote here the relevant part from the notability guidelines for musicians:
A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one (my emphasis) of the following criteria:
  1. It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.
In what way is this not the case here? Both her debut solo recital in 2004 and her role debut in La sonnambula in 2007 received multiple coverage in the main Spanish newspapers. (She was also covered in the regional Spanish press, e.g. El Diario Montañés, but I only referenced to the national 'newspapers of record' in the article.) She has also been featured on the cover of a well-known (in Italy) specialist publication - Il Corriere del Teatro. I'm sure if I had access to the main hard-copy opera publications in Spain such as Ópera Actual and Ritmo, even more reviews of her performances would be found.
Note that in past deletion discussions for singers at the start of their careers, such as this one and this one, the primary issue was the complete absence of "multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable". In the absence of that, the other facts you've mentioned, e.g. won a major competition, has sung in a notable opera house or festival or with a notable orchestra, recordings with a major record company, etc. were looked at and in those cases were also found to be lacking. In other words they were alternative criteria to be used if the multiple independent coverage one could not be met. They weren't (and aren't) requirements that must be met in addition to multiple independent coverage. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Diletta Rizzo Marin has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published articles and reviews, albeit all in Spain and Italy. See the references provided in the article. The Festival Santander is a prominent music festival in Spain. The fact that she debuted so young in a major role (Amina in La sonnambula) was sufficiently notable to generate coverage both before the prima and in reviews afterwards in the Spanish national press, e.g. ABC, El Mundo, El País. Likewise she has appeared on the cover [1] of the October 2007 issue of Il Corriere del Teatro, which is a long established and respected specialist print publication in Italy. In addition to her solo recording (on a minor Italian label), the concert in which she sang with her father at the 2005 Festival Santander was broadcast by RTVE and issued by them as a CD. Obviously, she's not as notable as Joan Sutherland, but in my view, she's notable enough for an article here. Voceditenore (talk) 16:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep I know that her article in the German Wikipedia was deleted on 21 January 2008, but I don't know in what shape it was then, and I can't find any discussion on its deletion. However, in my opinion, Marin has sufficient notability to be included in Wikipedia. The article is well written and sourced; there's nothing to be gained by deleting that article. On the other hand, I'm not happy about her inclusion in the Coloratura soprano and Bel canto pages, and in many similar pages in other language-Wikipedias (e.g. sh:Soprani, gd:Neach-seinn àirde, sl:Sopran, sv:Sopran, fr:Soprano, es:Soprano, etc; I trust these will be removed in due course. However, disagreeing with overly excited fans like Bhangy (talk · contribs) is no reason to delete the article. Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.