Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dieselpunk (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No evidence that this term is used in reliable sources. Coredesat 05:45, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dieselpunk

AfDs for this article:
Articles for deletion/Dieselpunk Articles for deletion/Dieselpunk (2nd nomination)
Dieselpunk (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Article was deleted as recreation of deleted content, but this was overturned on DRV because drafts were significantly different. Problems with original research and insufficient referencing were sufficient to renominate at AfD, however. This is a procedural nomination. IronGargoyle (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. Dieselpunk is a young, yet notable genre, originally coined by the designers of a dieselpunk game [1]. An extended chronology exists for dieselpunk works of fiction[2] which is no less arbitrary than a similar list of steampunk fiction. Ottens (talk) 22:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sympathetic to this well-written article, but I can't see how the article (in its current form) meets notability standards - do you know of any mention of the term in reliable sources such as magazines, journals, books etc? Even a dictionary inclusion or a mention in the blog of a notable author would help. скоморохъ 22:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I am quite aware that the notability of some of the following references may be questioned, but I mean to illustrate that dieselpunk and discussion about it is relatively widespread in answer to Mr Skomorokh's inquiry.
Ottens (talk) 22:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you ever so much for your diligence. It does seem that the term is valid, widely used and demarcates a real genre of fiction. None of these sources confer notability according to Wikipedia's policy, alas. I think this will have to be merged to Literary punk genres if it is to be included at all. скоморохъ 23:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I must regretably agree with скоморохъ here. Despite several days of searching, I can find no sources that would meet Wikipedia's notability requirements. The term is simply too new to have been used widely in sci-fi circles. A merge to Literary punk genres seems the best option. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 04:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'm a huge fan of the -punk genres, but, sadly, this one just isn't notable. There is possibly one reliable third party source in the list above. I think that it deserves a mention on steampunk, (as a sub-genre) along with another mention on the Children of the Sun page, and perhaps a mention on any writer/artist/musician described as 'dieselpunk'. The page itself should probably redirect to steampunk. However, there just aren't the sources to have an article on the genre itself, yet. Hopefully some day. J Milburn (talk) 23:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete Again, NN. Compwhiz II(Talk)(Contribs) 01:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete Still no reliable sources, still not enough stories to constitute a genre unto itself. What I find odd in this conversation and the previous discussion on the article's talk page is that there is little to no mention of what authors are working in this genre, but rather a desperate attempt to prove the term itself is notable. Beeblbrox (talk) 02:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
  • possible conflict of interest After examining some of the sources on the above list, it seems likely that that Ottens created the entries at "the Gatehouse" fairly recently, possibly to help influence the outcome of this debate. I would add that the bulk of these sites and lists are not from reliable sources and are as full of holes and contradictions as the article under debate here.Beeblbrox (talk) 02:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Full disclosure I am the one who PRODed this article.Beeblbrox (talk) 02:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete I really like the steampunk genre, but I agree with the nomination that this appears to be original research. I also agree that this the links listed above are not reliable sources. Slavlin (talk) 03:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Delete per nomination. Henry Merrivale (talk) 04:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I most definitely did not wrote the articles at my own website in order to save the entry here from deletion. I had anticipated that the Dieselpunk page at wikipedia would be removed, thus I wrote the articles 1) so there would still be a source online for information about the genre, and 2) because the wikipedia entry, which I also wrote, included stuff I wanted to include in the articles for my site. May I suggest that you be slightly less suspicious of my motivations in the future, Mr Beeblbrox?
Mr Slavlin, may I refer you to the line I wrote above the list of links provided? "I am quite aware that the notability of some of the following references may be questioned, but I mean to illustrate that dieselpunk and discussion about it is relatively widespread". They weren't all meant to be reliable sources; I provided the list to show that Dieselpunk is a known genre about which awareness is steadily growing.
Unfortunately it appears that wikipedia will not accept it until some more game designers, film makers and authors declare their own work "dieselpunk". It reminds me of the status of "steampunk" several years ago, before it was accepted. Hopefully we'll be having this discussion again some years from now when more works of fiction are labeled "dieselpunk". Ottens (talk) 11:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to lose the focus of our debate here, but to be fair, I was careful to use language like "probable" and "possibly". I think it is highly dubious, no matter what your motivations may have been, to create a website yourself and then cite it as a source for an encyclopedia. I also find some of the claims made on the cites you reference extremely unlikely. Where are the "punk" elements of Raiders of the Lost Ark and how could it be considered the same genre as Dark City or Brazil? These are the questions I think most people would have upon reading this material, and nothing in this article or in the sources you've provided seems to have the answers.Beeblbrox (talk) 17:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I did not intend to cite my own website as a source for the article--I included it under "External links", for it is one of the few resources for information about Dieselpunk, but I did not list it as a source for information about the genre. I listed it here merely for purposes of proving notability. If this caused any confusion, I apologize for that. I do not consider my own website a source to proof legitimacy of the genre. Ottens (talk) 18:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep I think the article needs some work, but it's notable. Battle Angel Alita seems to fit into the Diesel Punk genre. Malamockq (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.