Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dick Donato

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirect --Haemo 20:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dick Donato

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Dick Donato (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The only notability that Dick Donato has, is the fact that he is a contestant on Big Brother. He has a bio on the Big Brother 8 page that is sufficient. Most (if not all) of the information on this page, is listed on his bio on the Big Brother page. Rjd0060 01:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up Comment:Dick Donato has a complete bio on the main BB8 Page. People don't seem to get that. There was a redirect to the BB8 page but when this page was created, the redirect was obviously removed. This page should be deleted. It is just a duplicate of information (Copy & Paste) from his bio on Big Brother 8 (US). - Rjd0060 14:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, he's only notable for his crass and abnoxious antics on Big Brother and name dropping. Like Rjd0060 says, everything about him is already on the Big Brother 8 (US) article. This is totally fancruft. - Jeeny Talk 01:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: He is covered well enough in the Big Brother 8 page, there is absolutely no different information between the two. - Spyke1077
  • Delete: Per above. Tazmaniacs 02:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge It might have just been better to propose a merge, or even better, be bold and do it instead of AfDing it. Anyway, since you did, merge and redirect to BB8. i said 02:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment, the information is already in the Big Brother 8 (US) article. There is nothing to merge, as it's already there. That's why it's proposed for deletion. It's quicker...er ..I think. - Jeeny Talk 02:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I just always use the two terms in tandem. And as for being quicker, if he was bold and did it, and no one reverted, five days is much slower. At any rate, the article shouldn't be left deleted, it needs to be a redirect at least. i said 03:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
A redirect was applied at the very begining, but got reverted somehow. <shrugh> - Jeeny Talk 03:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep It needs some work, but I think he should have his own page. Why do alot of the other Big Brother alumni have pages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BigCoop (talk • contribs) 03:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Please see why other stuff exists. - Jeeny Talk 03:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep He is perhaps the biggest personality to come out of this year's season of Big Brother. If Janelle Pierzina and Mike Malin have their own entries, for doing nothing notable except for appearing on Big Brother, then I think Dick Donato deserves his own page as well. 76.238.86.111 03:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
How is that notable in an encyclopedic way? Also see why other stuff exists. - Jeeny Talk 03:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:BIO. WP:WAX applies to most of the keep arguments. --Strothra 04:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment If I were to comment on my decision right now I would say Merge if possible, but since the finale is Tuesday Sept. 18 I say hold off on a decision because Dick has a chance to win the game. And this article will be recreated by someone if he is crowned winner. So don't make an absolute decision until after the finale since the winner of the US, UK, or Australia Big Brother always have an article for the winner. See Brian Belo as an example. I am just saying that any decision resulting in the deletion of this article before Tuesday could ultimately undo the potential decision. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 04:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: Even if he were to win, how is that going to change his page, other than "Dick won Season 8 of Big Brother"? When I get around to it, I am going to go through some other previous contestants' pages and checking if they have other notability. If they don't, those special pages will also be proud holders of AfD Templates too!!. - Rjd0060 15:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC) / Rjd0060 20:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: I am just saying that people would recreate the page if he is the winner, a decision should be made after the finale. Other than that I am for Delete as per your nom. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 01:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: Well, if it gets deleted, then recreated, it will be eligible for a Speedy delete, as per WP:CSD#G4. - Rjd0060 02:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - I feel the winners might marginally notable, but since the Donato is not a winner of any BB series and his info is alrady on the main BB8 article, this article should be deleted. Spawn Man 05:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Note to closing admin - Out of the 2 "Keep" votes so far, one is from the main editor to the article and the other if from an IP with no other edits other than to this AfD. JSYK. Cheers, Spawn Man 05:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Delete or Redirect - or maybe just link to his biography somewhere, just under the Big Brother 8 page. Zchris87v 09:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Blank and redirect - No need for duplication of material, but it will more than likely be a search term used in the future so redirect to relevant Big Brother article. --WebHamster 10:32, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep This won't be the last we hear of Dick Donato and this page needs to be here so it can be expanded over time. --MaraLuna 12:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC) — MaraLuna (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep We might want to keep this article for purpose for adding some things for his time on the show and he might the winner, although I doubt the jury would give him the prize. ScottAHudson 13:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: Makes no sense! If we want to add things from his time on the show, then add things on the SHOWS PAGE. - Rjd0060 15:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment:Response to previous "Keep" comments: Ummm...OK. How about this: If Dick Donato becomes the President of the United States, then we will make him his own page. All of these arguments that say he might become notable, Well, thats not a good reason to give him a page NOW. - Rjd0060 15:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment Correct, as Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We can't keep a page because he may win the show, or presume he will do something notable later. Just because he is popular before a viewing audience of 7 million, which may sound like a lot, but in industry standards, that's not a large viewership. OK for a summer show, but that's it. - Jeeny Talk 18:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect to the article on the show as individual contestants are not really notable. AniMate 20:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Comment: But they are really not so notable that they need their own page. Before this page was created, there was a redirect to his bio on the main Big Brother 8 page! If / when this page gets deleted, it (Dick Donato) would obviously be set to redirect to Big Brother 8 (US)#Dick again. - Rjd0060 20:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete The man is an absolute nobody and will do nothing outside of the show. 86.153.56.91 22:40, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete As a brit, who lives in the UK and has (obviously) never seen your series of Big Brother, I can only comment upon the content of the article. This article seems to say little more than is mentioned on the page for Big Brother 8 (US), and until the contestant has done something notable outside of the house, I don't see what makes him more deserving of an article than any other contestant. I think that what is mentioned on the main page pretty much covers everything important here.-Toon05 23:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - How about we put this AfD on hold til Tuesday? If he wins, that is enough for notability per precedent of previous BB winners. Tarc 22:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: How about no! There really is no reason to keep it. Even if he does win, how is that going to change his page, other than "Dick won Season 8 of Big Brother"? As far as other winners having their own page, I can speak for only U.S. winners: 5 out of 7 previous winners have notability other than winning Big Brother, such as appearances on television shows, etc. The 2 that do not have other notability, well, I will be doing something about that (either adding notability information or adding AfD tags). - Rjd0060 23:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Um, because winning would itself be notable? Tarc 12:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Just being a winner on Big Brother, isn't really that notable. Like I said, everything on this page is COPIED and PASTED from his bio on the main page. If he wins, there will be a total of 1 sentence added to this article that says he won. That is just not necessary. Once this page gets deleted (assuming it does for purposes of the explanation), there will be a redirect. So when / if people search for him, they will get his bio on the main BB8 page, which I will reiterate, is the same thing as this. - Rjd0060 15:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with Big Brother 8 - as he only been notable for being a constestant - nothing else notable about him.--JForget 23:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
  • I on the other hand have found Dick's tenacity in trying very hard to reconnect with his daughter, while at the same time playing the best game in BB history is reason enough to have a page in Wikipedia. He is very popular and I predict will have many tv offers in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Missmobius (talk • contribs) 01:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: First of all, why does he need his own page, when everything on that page is copy and pasted from the main Big Brother 8 article? Secondly, as far as his future tv offers, Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball!. - Rjd0060 02:13, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It should be noted that the discussion appearing above occurred before he won the half million dollars. His notability has changed.
  • Keep. He's the big winner. He's not just a contestant any more. BB's other big winners get articles. Yes, a lot of the information was copied and pasted from the BB8 article. The article has to start somewhere. Dick is a record-setting winner for several reasons. His external links don't belong in the BB8 article. He has other things going on. Wryspy 07:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply:5/7 of the other winners have other notability (ie: several television appearances, etc.).What other things does he have going on? Oh, A MYSPACE PAGE!? Well then if Dick has a myspace page, then he must be special! Oh, please. The only external links that you speak of are (2) Myspace pages, and (1) photo gallery from CBS.com (which can be added to his main BB bio). And what "records" has he set? Please, tell me. - Rjd0060 14:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Grounds for speedy close with no action: There is no AfD notice on the article and it has not been there since 21:51, September 16, 2007. It's ironic that someone fighting against this article's existence removed the AfD notice when turning the page into a redirect. Therefore this current discussion has been wholly improper since then. Do not blank or redirect an article while it's being discussed in AfD. People have to be able to see what they're discussing. Do not try to close an AfD if you're not an admin. (See this page's edit history.) Wryspy 07:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Restoring the tag now does not change the fact that it was improperly missing for four days. Wryspy 09:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Reply: Umm...Well lets see, the tag was removed and the page redirected on September 17. Since then, nobody even made a comment on this AfD page except, Jeeny, You, and myself. So nobody was affected by the missing tag. Sorry. - Rjd0060 14:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
All you've done by saying that is to help make my point for me. The absence of the AfD tag is why people couldn't know about this AfD to comment on it. I only found out about this because Jeeny mentioned it on my talk page. Otherwise, I'd have never known that an article I was editing was up for deletion. Wryspy 15:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment, his notablity has not changed. The only thing notable is that he won a US reality show. A summer show at that. Please see WP:BIO and especially WP:WAX - Jeeny Talk 09:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You can debate the degree of notability. That doesn't alter the fact that a change has occurred (and he didn't just win -- he set several records). People who voted to delete on the grounds that he was just a contestant (and I'd have agreed with that myself) might not agree that an article about a Big Brother winner should be deleted (again, take me for example). More importantly, it sure doesn't change all the improper things that have happened in this AfD. The AfD tag was missing for four days. You did that. You also tried to close the AfD as if you were an admin. At the very least, this AfD needs to be closed without action and started over from scratch. Do it right or not at all. Wryspy 09:10, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes: * Unless they are known in their own right outside of the show, people who appear as contestants in reality TV are not generally notable unless they are winners or runners up. Lists may exist for certain programs, such as Survivor or Big Brother (US). Note that Jeeny deleted that statement from the common outcomes page in the middle of a disagreement over the Dick Donato article. Don't try to change guidelines singlehandedly just because they contradict your position. Wryspy 09:23, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
That bit was added a couple of weeks ago, and without consensus about reality tv winners. They are not notable unless they have done something other than the reality show. This is an encyclopedia. Sheesh. - Jeeny Talk 09:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Your remark about its original addition without consensus is a good one, but it still comes across as a conflict of interest when you didn't fix that until it was convenient for you. And "Spelling bee winners: Winners of well known national spelling bees (like Scripps or CanSpell) are notable." has been in that article for a long time. Big Brother winners are more famous than national spelling bee winners. Wryspy 09:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
When incorrect things are added to guideline pages, do you automatically know the moment it happens, or do find out later when you run across it? - Rjd0060 14:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Fame and notability are two totally different things.---- WebHamster 10:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Dick, with his unique fashion, catch phrases, and personality, has been an important part of 2007 US pop culture. Juppiter 15:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
    • Whoopee he won, great, delete the article and let's move on to the next 5 minute wonder. ---- WebHamster 16:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect or weak keep - There is a precedent set for winners of reality shows having their own articles, though I question the necessity of this. I would like to remind everyone to try and keep things a little less... shrill? Maybe not the word I'm looking for, but it's close enough. This is a contestant on Big Brother, and frankly once the fall season kicks in, no one is going to remember him. If the people who want to delete this so badly still care in say January, why not do a group deletion of all the winners who have done nothing else notable? Right now isn't really the time though, since fans are going to be extremely excited and adamant about the importance of (and let's be honest) a second tier reality show and its supposedly very notable winner. AniMate 17:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
  • KeepMy thing is that every winner has had their own page, and it would make sense to create one for him. Besides being the winner, he has caused much controversey (his comments and the California National Organization for Women info). I think that this would of been a different story if he didnt win, and that goes for other contestants as well. The fact still is that Dick won and there is plenty of things that can be said in the article just centering around big brother alone and as more things happen we can add them. Also, we can shrink the info on the main Big Brother page and just add a link towards his page.Rosario lopez 18:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.