Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diane Mela and Robin Gabrielli
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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS.
The votes were 13 delete, 9 keep.
[edit] Diane Mela and Robin Gabrielli
Both failed VFD due not enough of votes to form a consensus, both non-notable actors from the same movie. -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:23, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) See also: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Diane Mela and Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Robin Gabrielli
- Delete both. -- AllyUnion (talk) 05:23, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both. Mikkalai 07:04, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep both. Megan1967 09:24, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep both. —RaD Man (talk) 09:41, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep both, any actor/actress/director/filmographer/writer/etc... listed on IMDB (with more than a 1 line entry) is sufficiently notable for inclusion on wikipedia. ALKIVAR™
09:56, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC) - These were up for deletion from January 30 to February 4 or 5. This seems too soon to go through this again. Samaritan 11:56, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both. Yeesh. --Calton 12:39, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both. Appearing in a few straight to video movies doesn't make you an "actor" any more than my work for wikipedia makes me an "author". Neither of us are making a living as such. Not notable. And an entry in IMDb is not an automatic bye into wikipedia any more then a list in "Who's Who in American High Schools" is. IMDb does not discourage self-promotion (I think they even encourage it) and will list just about anyone. They are not an encyclopedia and have no notability requirements. -R. fiend 19:51, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- IMDB does a better job of filtering people than you think. I've had credited roles as both a speaking actor and extra in several movies. Several of the movies i've been in are on IMDB. (Shadow Glories, Mystic River, Empire Falls) just to name a couple. Yet you wont find me on there. ALKIVAR™ 20:25, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- If you've had speaking roles in released films and you're not on the IMDb then you haven't been trying. Nothing wrong with that, not everyone necessarily wants to be listed, but I don't think that means we have to reward those who do, and accept that it makes them notable. Acting does not equal notability. -R. fiend 22:45, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- i've had a whopping 15 lines of dialogue across 11 movies, by imdb standards thats not includeable. ALKIVAR™ 05:20, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Better than many, believe me. You needn't even be credited, or have any dialogue at all to be listed. Check out this person. Would you believe she has a wikipedia article? -R. fiend 06:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- That one doesnt pass my noteability standard... as I said earlier, 1 line or less on imdb isnt inclusion worthy. VfD that one and you have my support. These two on the other hand just squeek by. ALKIVAR™ 06:31, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I tried, and it missed "consensus" by one vote. The VfD ended a couple days ago, and if I try again now I'm sure I'll be shouted down by people who cry foul and vote keep based on accusations of "abuse". I'll wait a few weeks anyway, but if someone else wants to nominate I will again support. -R. fiend 06:40, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- That one doesnt pass my noteability standard... as I said earlier, 1 line or less on imdb isnt inclusion worthy. VfD that one and you have my support. These two on the other hand just squeek by. ALKIVAR™
- Better than many, believe me. You needn't even be credited, or have any dialogue at all to be listed. Check out this person. Would you believe she has a wikipedia article? -R. fiend 06:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both. democrazy legge gets less than two dozen hits--numbers I'd expect from someone selling self-produced DVDs out of their garage. Niteowlneils 20:03, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- interesting
- Results 1 - 49 of about 132 for Democrazy Legge. (0.34 seconds)
- Results 1 - 100 of about 11,800 for Democrazy movie. (0.12 seconds)
- not to mention the fact that we have an article on Michael Legge (deletionists: btw thats not up for vfd yet, get to work). ALKIVAR™ 20:25, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep, for me, this is about where one finds "the line". Wyss 20:40, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep professional actors are notable if verifiable (i.e. on IMDB) Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:00, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Please supply evidence that this person is professional. She ain't making much money off these no-budget movies. -R. fiend 02:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I would say that appearing in 8 feature films (albiet indie ones), plus television work, makes her a professional actress by just about any reasonable measure. There are loads of actors out there who would love to work that regularly. Think of how many actors don't even make it to their first or second feature film role, much less their eighth! If you're asking me to prove that she's not also a waitress or something on the side, I can't, but even if she did have another job it wouldn't necessarily make her not a professional actress. The body of work alone proves it. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:09, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
- I think "feature film" gives too much credibility to these movies. First of all, they aren't films at all; they were shot on video. Second, all Diane Mela's movies are by the same guy, Legge. Looking at IMDb, none of the movies report making any gross. The only reported budget (for Honey Glaze) is $2000, which, after subtracting technical costs there is maybe a few hundred dollars left over to pay all actors and crew. And that's a later, and therefore likely higher budget movie. I see no television appearances listed. So what we have here is a friend of a very minor B-movie director who appears, either for free or for pennies, in these movies he makes, which never seem to make it to theatres. Here's what an online reviewer and self-proclaimed Legge "expert" said: "We’re talking zero-budget DIY film-making here - shot for very cheap on location on video camera using friends, neighbours and family as actors." There may be actors who might want to work that regularly (if you can call 7 roles in 16 years "regular") but probably not for free. Sorry, but I just can't see how she can be professional. -R. fiend 18:07, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I would say that appearing in 8 feature films (albiet indie ones), plus television work, makes her a professional actress by just about any reasonable measure. There are loads of actors out there who would love to work that regularly. Think of how many actors don't even make it to their first or second feature film role, much less their eighth! If you're asking me to prove that she's not also a waitress or something on the side, I can't, but even if she did have another job it wouldn't necessarily make her not a professional actress. The body of work alone proves it. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:09, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Please supply evidence that this person is professional. She ain't making much money off these no-budget movies. -R. fiend 02:05, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Keep Both Why should we not include actors who aren't terribly fameous? If it's self-promotion, that's not acceptable, but an encyclopedia like this should include a world of information. Are we running of paper?Zantastik 06:26, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- For the same reason we don't include non-famous plumbers or accountants. -R. fiend 06:42, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- ...but, we must remember that actors are part of culture, accountants and plumbers are not. Also, since nearly everyone enjoys some sort of movies, so acting can hardly be considered a niche subject. That's why IMDB is one of the most popular websites in history, and plumber databses are nowhere near as popular. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:09, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
- For the same reason we don't include non-famous plumbers or accountants. -R. fiend 06:42, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete. This was originally an attempt by someone to advertise their no-budget films. One of them , Democrazy, has been deleted before and keeps getting recreated. None of these people have done anything significant, it's not even right to consider them actors. And for the last time, IMDb is NOT an indicator of notability. You can add whoever the hell you want onto it yourself. Xezbeth 06:46, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep them both and allow for organic growth. Wikipedia is not a paper-based encyclopedia. GRider\talk 19:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- KEEP BOTH - This is getting pretty stupid now. To keep putting the same people up for deletion over and over again. Plank 19:35, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- NOTE: Robin Gabrielli should have been deleted with the prvious vote, but wasn't due to a miscount. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Robin Gabrielli: 4 votes for deletion, (myself, Average Earthman, Xezbeth, Edeans) and 2 for keep (plank, Zantastik) = consensus to delete. Any admin feel like being bold and correcting this? -R. fiend 19:51, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- COMMENT I think we have the answer why this R. demon is all hepped up about wanting to delete these actors. It's because with his own words on this page he says that IMDB will list anyone on the IMDB if they've worked on any film and yet he doesn't even rank "anyone" with his bit of extra work on The Time Machine. He's a want-to-be actor himself! He's just jealous of these people! You don't "do" extra work unless you want to be an actor!!! Also, note that his friends who have made films aren't on IMDB either!!! So they must be really low on the totem pole too!!! :) lol Plank 00:16, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Interesting theory, albeit completely retarded. Could I be on IMDb for being an extra in a single movie? I don't know; I haven't tried, because that would be pathetic. And my friends who have made films actually are on IMDb, and I find it odd you would say they're not considering you know absolutely nothing about them. Am I jealous of Diane and Robin? Well, somehow being in a handful of universally panned B-movies without making a dime off it doesn't sound like a dream come true. I suppose they might have been fun to make though. No, if I'm jealous of anyone I doubt it's Michael Legge's friends and neighbors. -R. fiend 00:26, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Plank, keep your observations about the motives of other votes out of the vfd discussion and please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Gamaliel 16:49, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- No, I will not keep my observations quiet. My name is being bandied about by fiend and even on other VFD's! It is being implied that I am advertising or that I am part of a plot! Half the articles I began to work on have been deleted! There must be a motive to these people attacking all my contributions! I have a right to make these comments and I'd like to see you shut me up. You have a real nerve Gamaliel singling me out to chastise. Is it policy for users to personally attack people that articles are written about. I've noticed fiend making fun of casting aspertions at and insulting almost every person of whose article he has voted to delete. Some of the things he has said could be considered slander! You are in fact personally attacking me Gamaliel by posting your comments here you could easily have left me a message. Peoples motives are important this demon fellow is abusing VFD and is following all my edits and contributions around. He has even accused me and others of vadalizing Wikipedia because we contributed to articles that he did not like. What do you call that? I call that grossly stepping over the bounds of civility. Where were you then. I don't care if you are an administrator don't you dare single me out to yell at and neglect any others who have been campaigning against all my articles and have been making comments about me "personally." Plank 03:27, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- I cannot monitor every article on Wikipedia, so I have no idea what kind of interactions you've had in the past. However, the only person I see here attacking others, making fun of the user name of another editor, and inventing sinister motives for other users is you. If you feel that you have been attacked by others in other articles, please privately report it to an administrator or follow the steps outlined at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution instead of complaining and attacking others in an unrelated article. Gamaliel 16:46, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Personally, I'd like to see any evidence backing up anything Plank has just accused me of. There should be a record of it somewhere if it's true. Sure, I've made an occasional quip about some of the people who have articles, and their weak claims to notability (and I am by no means alone in doing so), but I hardly see how that qualifies as "abuse" or "slander". I suspect Plank thinks I'm "following him around" because I nominated to delete a bunch of "actor" substubs he created (these two included), but all that involved was a simple peek at the page for that "Democrazy" movie he is so cracy about; they were all right there. And he might want to note that I did not nominate "Democrazy" for deletion, nor did I even vote to delete it when someone else did, so this is hardly a vendetta. Someone needs to take his pills (oh, is that slander?). -R. fiend 06:13, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- No, I will not keep my observations quiet. My name is being bandied about by fiend and even on other VFD's! It is being implied that I am advertising or that I am part of a plot! Half the articles I began to work on have been deleted! There must be a motive to these people attacking all my contributions! I have a right to make these comments and I'd like to see you shut me up. You have a real nerve Gamaliel singling me out to chastise. Is it policy for users to personally attack people that articles are written about. I've noticed fiend making fun of casting aspertions at and insulting almost every person of whose article he has voted to delete. Some of the things he has said could be considered slander! You are in fact personally attacking me Gamaliel by posting your comments here you could easily have left me a message. Peoples motives are important this demon fellow is abusing VFD and is following all my edits and contributions around. He has even accused me and others of vadalizing Wikipedia because we contributed to articles that he did not like. What do you call that? I call that grossly stepping over the bounds of civility. Where were you then. I don't care if you are an administrator don't you dare single me out to yell at and neglect any others who have been campaigning against all my articles and have been making comments about me "personally." Plank 03:27, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- COMMENT I think we have the answer why this R. demon is all hepped up about wanting to delete these actors. It's because with his own words on this page he says that IMDB will list anyone on the IMDB if they've worked on any film and yet he doesn't even rank "anyone" with his bit of extra work on The Time Machine. He's a want-to-be actor himself! He's just jealous of these people! You don't "do" extra work unless you want to be an actor!!! Also, note that his friends who have made films aren't on IMDB either!!! So they must be really low on the totem pole too!!! :) lol Plank 00:16, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Right, well it looks like we've now seen the level of inclusivity on Wikipedia. So the 'Average Professor' test can die as well, right now. Anybody - and I mean every, single one on the entire planet - who is an employed professor by a legitimate university deserves an article if actors of this level do. I still vote Delete Average Earthman 01:53, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both articles. Being a movie actor isn't the royal road to notability. The bar seems pretty low for actors on Wikipedia, but it it isn't this low. --BM 22:21, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete Diane Mela. I've deleted Robin Gabrielli] after reviewing the tally; see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Robin Gabrielli]. Wile E. Heresiarch 07:22, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- No need to erase these articles when cartoon characters have their own, keep them both. Leanne 22:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete. No evidence of true notability. Gamaliel 16:49, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- Delete Kevin Rector 22:56, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)
- Delete both. —Korath (Talk) 01:45, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
- Delete. dbenbenn | talk 20:33, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
