Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diamondancer

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Redwolf24 (talk) 02:44, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Diamondancer

Delete, hoax as far as I can tell. I cannot conjure Google hits for diamondancer combined with any of the relevant terms from the article. Appears there might be a band by this name, but they get about 180 Googles, so are nn anyway. -Splash 18:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

My nomination stands. -Splash 00:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, though it's not a hoax: here is her website. Still, not notable. JDoorjam 19:06, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
• Hi, I know Diamondancer. Although she is very young, she's a genuine contribution to Great Lakes fashion and culture. She is an organizer of region-wide events, and she travels internationally in pursuit of cultural exchange. The person who posted her biography didn't understand the rules of Wikification, so I will Wikify the record. 208.54.15.129 21:33, 15 August 2005 (UTC) Wmjuntunen 21:36, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

After working on her biography, I discover that she edited poetry for Detroit Furnace magazine. This literary magazine is very key in this city; it's the best handle Detroiters have on cultural life in the city. Historians will need this information. She is an exceptional example of a Detroit Diva, an artist who can produce in mulitple art forms, create art events that have real audiences. You could learn the entire art context in Detroit by following her career. Wmjuntunen 03:16, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Relisting this on August 23. There isn't enough discussion. Five more days. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 19:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

• Still voting strong delete: Google comes up completely nearly empty on this "notable Detroit persona." I get as many hits with my name and my hometown as she does. (Go on, try it yourself with... yourself.) And don't let all the false-association blue-links fool you (like the random link to Andy Warhol): if you actually read through most of them aren't notable by wiki standards. JDoorjam 02:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unless verifiable evidence exists for claims. Like JDoorjam I have not been able to see such evidence from the links provided. Capitalistroadster 02:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn. Radiant_>|< 07:22, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Strong keep. I recommend googling Vievee,published poet and associate, Detroit Furnance Magazine, which has a web page, Niagara (the Detroit performance artist) who learned her craft by visiting Warhol's Factory, Blair of the Urban Folk Collective, who co-edits poetry with Carolyn Ferrari, the birth name of Diamondancer. BTW: Blair, her associate, brought back the National Poetry Slam Cup to Detroit several years ago, and that's connected to Anne Waldman, poet. Googling Carolyn Ferrari itself will access older articles on her in Detroit's Metro Times. Plus, she has been acknowledged, juried by the CHARLES H. WRIGHT MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY http://maah-detroit.org/. That's a museum in Detroit's Cultural Center with a multi-million dollar budget, supported by every Detroit-based philathropy, housed in an architectural marvel, a marvel completed in time for the funeral service of Mayor Coleman Young. MAAH is a good touchstone of notability in Africana. I could contact the museum personally because I've written interviews of their emergent artists before. A good sign of an artist's notability is a record of juried appearances in shows in serious galleries. Diamondancer has that.

More, the theatre at the Redd Apple Gallery is authentic African-American theatre. And here's the real reason to keep. This woman is pure American Africana. Her work is collected by notable African Americans in the City of Detroit. She is a model of entrepreneurship and creative career in the city of Detroit. If Henry Louis Gates, Harvard-based author of the Encarta Africana was paying attention to this discussion or Spike Lee was paying attention, I wonder what they would say?

It is possible, gentleman, that googling isn't enough. It is possible, also, the a local wikipedian in Detroit has access to materials and direct site visits that aren't accessible on the web yet? I was there at a fashion show when models wearing Diamondancer designs waltzed onto the runway in white, mythic robes and owl masks Detroit Fashion Week, and I have pictures of this. As an art critic, I was much bestirred.

I agree that the article could use clean-up, and the signficance of her links can be better supported --- but Wikipedia is an interactive process. If we can get this out of the deletion process, I will undertake this rewrite process. Wmjuntunen 15:35, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• A reminder of the Britney Spears' cousin principle: knowing, being related to, or even being friends with notable people does not make you notable. Neither studying Warhol, nor even having work purchased by notable people, is in itself notable. JDoorjam 20:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• The Britney Spear's Cousin principle is a useful principle. In Diamondancer's case, we are referring to relationships based upon artistic judgement. Ms. Ferrari has numerous relationships based upon artistic judgement. For example, Ms. Ferrari edited poetry with Blair, a position bestowed upon her by an editorial panel. The BSC principle applies to kinship and friendship relations, awarded by birth or casual considerations. A co-editorship is usually awarded as an act of detente, a way of recognizing two equals. I have taken care to define Redd Apple Gallery, Niagara, Arts Beats & Eats, The Furnance, and will continue defining. In two cases, I have defended Detroit cultural resources from deletion successfully --- one of which had an unusual name. I believe the unusual name and the lack of academic institutions, art schools, are false weaknesses of this article. I've had artist stubs with less information readily accepted based upon an ordinary name and art school credentials. Wmjuntunen 21:32, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - not notable - Tεxτurε 15:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Diamondancer is an often juried artist, and an artist stub. Artists are notable once juried. Artists are notable once written about in the arts press, and she's been NOTED by the Detroit Metro Times and the Detroit dailies. That's what jurying confers.

Can anyone who has voted delete come from an art history perspective and prove non-notability? Emergent artists are notable. Look at the record of Durand, who bought the paintings of obscure Monet for a song. If you disagree, please produce your criteria for notability for artists. I'm looking for something more than the Britney Spear's Cousin principle. That's not a principle. That's a smear of Britney Spears, a notable topic for the Wikipedia.

Not one of you are talking criteria, besides the Google hit count. Without a criteria for notability, you're just rendering an opinion. An artist doesn't have to be dead or on the wall of the Tate to be notable. Diamondancer was an juried participant at three to five Detroit galleries: Redd Apple, MAAH, 4731 and Arts, Beats & Eats. ! Her work has featured on the cover of magazines that print 100,000 of weekly issues.

Please recuse yourself if you are unfamiliar with the way the arts community functions. Be honest. You might not see notability if you are unfamiliar. How many of you are familiar with Detroit? You might wish to recuse yourself if this city is unfamiliar to you. And here's the kicker. If you are unfamiliar with African-American art and African - American aesthetics, kindly recuse yourself. Wmjuntunen 00:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.