Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dave Nevada

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, subject isn't notable and the only sources provided are trivial message boards and fan sites (e.g. geocities). John Reaves (talk) 06:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dave Nevada

Dave Nevada (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Prod was removed, so I had to take this to AFD. Non-notable indy wrestler. A google search turned up no decent results. RobJ1981 06:26, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete not-notable. —Ocatecir ^Talk 08:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. I removed the tag after minor editing to establish his notability, which I am allowed to do as per template guidelines, and left a note on the talk page with no response from the nominator. He is a major competitor on the Midwestern independent circuit, particularly as part of the tag team Satisfaction Garanteed with Aaron Williams, and presently holds at least four tag team titles in three of the largest independent promotions in the Midwest-area. MadMax 14:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matrix17 (talk • contribs)
• Delete No evidence of non-trivial coverage by reliable, independent sources, fails WP:BIO by a mile. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete not notable until he makes the big leagues or gains notability in some other field. MLA 15:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per reason of MadMax. Oo7565 18:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment We tend to base our reasoning on notability guidelines, not on unsourced tangential commentary. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:20, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. It should be noted: MadMax keeps re-adding useless sources. Message boards and fansites aren't helpful or reliable. Sourcing is good and all: when it's decent reliable sources, not just any random link you can find. RobJ1981 20:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment. As I mentioned previously on my talk page, I never "re added" any sources nor was I informed prior to RobJ's removal that there was a problem with any of the sources I added. I assume the change took place during an edit conflict, however the "fansite" is actually an official website of prominant independent wrestler Nikita Allanov. The second link, Midwest Independent Pro Wrestling Discussion, is a longrunning messageboard which has been active for over seven years and, while is usally unconventional, I used to support the introductory statement concerning his notority among wrestling fans in the Cincinatti-area. I believe I am allowed to improve the article anyway I'm able and, if others feel the sources are useless, then they are free to take that into consideration when they vote. The other references were used both to support statments already made in the article (such as notable opponents, title changes and events) as well as to support the claim that New Era Wrestling itself is a notable independent promotion as it is covered by website's such as Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer.

Also, I've reverted RobJ's prior changes due to portions of text which were removed from the article and placed an unreferenced tag due to his concerns. As I have explained my reasons for adding those specific references, I don't think unwarrented accusations are nessessary. MadMax 22:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

New Era Wrestling is not a notable promotion. The coverage in the Wrestling Observer is as follows:

--New Era Wrestling from last night in Mount Healthy, OH: Dave Nevada b Coz Jackman, Cyrus Poe & Tommy Chill b Team Awesome, Garf Redman b Nikita Allanov, Chris Reno b Nick LeBeau, Ronnie Longworth b Wrestler X, Brad Callway NC Tim Lutz. Next show is 9/2

That's nothing more than a set of results almost certainly sent in by a fan, it's trivial coverage. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

• That specific link is meant to cite the opponent and event as well as the promotion's notability. New Era Wrestling is covered by several mainstream websites and there are general guidelines for fan submissions on most of these websites (otherwise they'd all be filled with backyard fed's and fly by night promotions). As opposed to a one time appearance, the promotion is listed frequently on WrestlingObserver.com as well as other mainstream wrestling websites such as Lords of Wrestling and PWTorch. Among its former roster includes Nikita Allanov, Tarek the Great and, most notably, Shane Douglas who has held the promotion's heavyweight title twice. MadMax 19:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment These are points on which I feel the subject fails (adapted from WP:BIO):
  a credible independent biography, significant recognized awards or honors, wide name recognition, a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record of pro-wrestling, multiple features in credible news media, appearences in well-known television and other productions, a large fan base or a significant "cult" following, a unique, prolific or innovative contributions to pro-wrestling, an important figure or widely cited by peers
  Suriel1981 16:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I wouldn't expect lesser-known wrestler to satisfy all of those but I cannot oppose deletion of a wrestler who fails to satisfy any. Suriel1981 16:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Much of his wrestling career is covered by his profile at New Era Wrestling while the Midwest Independent Pro Wrestling Discussion messageboard, again usually regarded as an unconventional source, does demonstrate at least a significant following among wrestling fans in the Cincinatti-area. MadMax 20:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

NEW's profile on him [1] is either crap or he really is non-notable and they put everything they could. Suriel1981 21:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment The sources provided mostly do not meet WP:RS. There's a blog, a forum, a geocities site and a mini-bio from the promotion he works for. Where are the secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what kind of sources you expect for an independent wrestler, however I've already stated my reasons for adding those specific sources. I have also established that NEW is a notable promotion (one of its champions being Shane Douglas), second that he has face at least one notable opponent Nikita Allanov (whose notability I have established despite its nomination for deletion) and third that he has held championship titles in NEW and at least two other independent promotions (Intense Wrestling Incorporated being a feature story on Everybody's News as well as Al Snow and New Jack having previously competed in the promotion). Also the "geocites website" is an archive page of Allanov's official website NikitaAllanov.vze.com. The messageboard, a current and longrunning messageboard which specifically coveres in the Mid-West independent scene, shows Nevada is known in at least to wrestling fans in the area. Not the best of sources, but it does support that he is notable beyond the World Wrestling Coalition. MadMax 02:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I'd expect the type of sources specifically required by WP:A - If an article topic has no reliable sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on it. This is an encyclopedia not a wrestling fan site, so we should not accept sources which clearly fail WP:RS in order to include an article about an independent wrestler. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This article has just as many references supporting its nobility, and in fact moreso, then more high profile independent wrestlers on Wikipedia such as Reckless Youth, Mike Quackenbush (if you exclude his books as an unrelable source), Crazy Train, Jonny Storm, Tom Howard, Joker, etc. yet meets the same qualifications for their inclusion. MadMax 02:00, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.