Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Darren M Jackson

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Keep working on WP:BIO sourcing... — Scientizzle 16:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Darren M Jackson

Darren M Jackson (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

To the closing administrator - please be sure to account for the fact that User:Diamonddannyboy has voted keep multiple times

Delete nn bare knuckle boxer, already speedied twice, and recreated Mayalld (talk) 08:18, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Keep Recreated due to it being put up for speedy deletion, now added web content, went up for speedy deletion twice due to not being able to verify notable, now added web content, please look at why it was deleted first tim.. keep page Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 11:09, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment The single source that has been added doesn't appear to meet WP:V, WP:RS or WP:N, and I haven't been able to find other sources that do meet the requirements. If other sources exist that do meet the requirements, then they need to be added. Mayalld (talk) 11:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment The original author has put up further sources. None of them IMO meet WP:V, WP:RS or WP:N. I have reformatted them into proper citations, not because I believe that they are adequate sources, but because I don't believe that the debate should hinge on the users inexperience in editing. Mayalld (talk) 14:30, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete possible WP:CSD#A7. A web search is not a source. Guy (Help!) 11:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment There is no Image so delete under WP:CSD#A712:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.51.74 (talk)
Comment Its a no brainer, It meets notabilty Quote wikipedia criteria.
From WP:ATHLETE:
  • Competitors and coaches who have competed in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis.
  • Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports (who meet the general criteria of secondary sources published about them).[1]
As Jackson has competed in a fully professional league, proven notable, even if full under amateur sport, Jackson has competed in prestigious events like United kingdom mixed martial art championship ukmmac, see reference of pro record and prestigious events. So notabilty cannot be contested, so article just needs a generl clean up. Diamonddannyboy (talk)
  • Keep Afd is not cleanup, this subject appears to meet WP:BIO as the article references non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources independent of the subject. скоморохъ 09:47, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment It doesn't appear to me that the sources quoted are in fact reliable sources Mayalld (talk) 13:05, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Mayalld Knows that the sources quoted are in fact reliable due to him seeing the newpaper articles that were downlaoded as images. He swifty put them up for deletion under a copy right issue, however they were free, and continues to discredit the author and its work, meets notablity under WP:ATHLETE and WP:BIO maybe Mayalld could explain fully which sources he believes not to be reliable.Then we can agree or disagree Diamonddannyboy (talk) 13:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC) 90.208.51.69 (talk) 13:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment The scans were deleted because the they WERE copyright violations. The claim that they were OK, because lots of people have read the paper simply shows an incorrect understanding of copyright law. I would contend that a piece in a minor local free newspaper does not constitute a reliable source that might establish notability.Mayalld (talk) 13:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment What about a main stream Martial Art Magazine 'Fighter Magazine' which is available across the UK would you contend that Jackson is one of the top UK Instructors in the uk!!! They just dont feature any Tom dick or Harry in that Mag, also the debate with MP Dr Howard Stoate, why would Dr Stoate have a debate with a know body. This what the article showed and if was left as proof could show that 14:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Diamonddannyboy (talk • contribs)
  • Weak Conditional Keep, I'm honestly on the fence as I was one of the editors that tagged it for speedy before, but I can see the possibility for notability under WP:ATHLETE. The only conditional I would have is that the creator establish some notability and establish it fast or I would recommend it be nominated again. Redfarmer (talk) 16:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Very weak delete I do not think there is quite enough there to establish WP:BIO notability, and as the sport is illegal I can not see this falling under WP:ATHLETE. That is the way I see it policywise. If this one survives, I do not think I will be disappointed. Mstuczynski (talk) 16:40, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • keep and ignore RogueNinja this person has been blocked from editing vandlises work.Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
That is news to me! RogueNinjatalk 22:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Diamonddannyboy has now said "Keep" or "Hang on" no less than 4 times! Whilst his enthusiasm is admirable, I have advised him that whilst he can comment as many times as he wants, he must not attempt to skew the AfD in this way and must desist from personal attacks Mayalld (talk) 22:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • comment sorry guys new to all this, thank mayalld you have been a great help. sorry RogueNinja, just jumped the gun a bit I did. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:37, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • No problem. It is good to be enthusastic, but make sure you review some wikipedia policy. RogueNinjatalk 23:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment It is notable under WP:ATHLETE due to Jackson competeing in a 'fully professional' league. These are the guide lines set out for basic criteria by wikipedia. mixed Martial Arts is not illegal it is sactioned by International Sport Combat Federation WP:ATHLETE competed in a fully professional league Jackson is a pro fighter see pro record by sherdog, also if it fulls under amateur sports, must have competed in prestigious events, I think Dave Couryneys Fight night in tribute to Joey pyll at caesars palace is very prestigigous.Diamonddannyboy (talk) 17:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment also meets WP:ATHLETE criteria under amateur who competes at a prestigious event, see reference to Mark Epsteins world title fight and win, Jackson was on the Bill, I would say that a world title event is pretty prestigious. There in no case to delete or speedy delete, if deleted this would be to go against guide lines set out in the basic wikipedia criteria for notability WP:ATHLETE end off . 90.208.51.74 (talk) 08:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep I've tidied it up a bit, so the article should be cleaner, but it is still needs a lot of work. My problem is that I'm unable to confirm the references - I don't know if they are sufficiently notable or not, because I can't get access to any of the better ones within the time constraints, and the weaker references are insufficient to establish notability. I'm also unable to source any references of my own, but that could be due to the nature of bare-knuckle fighting - it isn't a world which I have much insight into. From what I can tell, if the Fighters Magazine articles do cover him, then, in conjunction with the other material, he's probably notable enough to warrant keeping. This, of course, is assuming good faith on the part of the editor, which I see no reason to doubt, in spite of some problems (he's certainly enthusiastic). I should add that the weaker references, while by no means proving notability, do support the claim that he is a genuine fighter, and that he has fought at some sort of professional level - whether he fought at a level high enough to meet WP:ATHLETE is for those who know the field better than I to determine. Anyway, I agree with Redfarmer and some others - keep it for now, but keep a close watch on the article in case notability can't be properly established. - Bilby (talk) 16:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. I know a bit about the sport and, frankly, am not keen on finding out more. However, my understanding is this is a more underground sport/culture so this article will likely need the help of not only someone versed in what information wikipedia is looking for but also where to find it. This seems to be bordering on a promising article that needs work and the main contributor has been a newby editor who I'd rather encourage. Please note that if this AfD passes the article can and likely will be nominated again so will have to jump up in explaining the subjects notability so next time around it's more clear to those looking for such things. In general you need to get to the point right away who this person is and why anyone would care. The lede needs to be a stand alone summary of what the article is about as well as being an enticing read. Benjiboi 01:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. I forgot to mention there may also be cultural aspects at play in addition with the Romani who may have a history that similar to other cultures is oral based and thus culturally predisposed to not documenting their own history. Benjiboi 01:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep I put one of the original speedy tags on the article. It seems to me that an unfortunate combination of an underground sport and a long-repressed ethnic group requires sketchy sources. In fact, information from this secretive people is so rare that Mr Jackson must be notable for even courting attention this far into the mainstream. Heavy Seltzer (talk) 03:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.