Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daigo Umehara (third nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Majorly _{(o rly?)} 14:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daigo Umehara

Daigo Umehara (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

It's been 6 months, and the article is still unsourced. (See AfDs from July 2006 and August 2006). Arguments raised in the past for keeping this include:

• WP:ILIKEIT, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS --- no response necessary
• "He's on jawiki" --- however, inclusion is not an indicator of notability, and the jawiki article doesn't cite any reliable sources either. Also note the jawiki article had an AfD in Feb 2006, but that was closed on the grounds of the article being a copyvio, and didn't get a full discussion. The article was later recreated, and no one's bothered to raise an AfD again since. (I'd do it myself, but I don't even have an account over there).
• "He's notable in Japan, let's counter systematic bias" --- does not seem true, a search on 梅原 大吾 shows 1k GHits, but all blogs and forums. Don't see any WP:RS there either. Nor any non-trivial coverage. The only external link on the article itself is to someone's personal site.

Anyone have any new arguments as to why this should be kept, or know any reliable sources discussing him? cab 00:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete I'm still a proponent of not having a Daigo article. Having one but not having an article on Shoryuken.com or Bang the Machine (a documentary about the fighting game scene in America featuring Daigo) sets a double standard as to the notability of fighting games. As it stands, the Wikipedia article is made up mainly of tournament results and quasi-legends. JuJube 00:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

  No, your logic is flawed. The Governator is notable, but several of his earlier works are probably not so. McKay 08:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

  That's not even apples and oranges. That's apples and rocket fuel. Would you care to try an actual rebuttal this time? JuJube 00:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

  I myself don't find the logic of SRK being not notable to equal to Daigo being not notable. Daigo is in no way affiliated with SRK. His only relation to SRK is that he is a regular player for their main tournament (EVO), but he had also played in many other tournaments such as Tougeki.

Here's another example: there is a Wikipedia article for Ken Hoang, one of the best Super Smash Bros players in the world. But is there an article about Smashboards? Daigo and Ken are notable because they are one of the best in what they do, which is professional gaming. Are SRK and Smashboards considered one of the most notable websites, and is Bang the Machine considered a notable documentary? Are Daigo/Ken only well-known by members of SRK/Smashboards? Therefore I would say that is an insufficent reason to say Daigo not well-known enough. Afterdeath 10:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom and JuJube. Edeans 03:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete the only references are trivial.-MsHyde 04:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete For reasons above and because I think I favored deletion when he was mentioned on other AfD's. I don't have my reasons from then on hand though.--T. Anthony 04:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Seems to fail WP:BIO.Tellyaddict^{Editor review!} 16:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per JuJube. Even as an avid follower of the competitive fighting game community, I can't say Daigo's got enough coverage to meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 20:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- Neier 06:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

  Shame on all you. Why do we have so many deletionists‽ (see below) McKay 08:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep According this page, Japanese arcade game magazines have several articles about him and interviews with him. According to this, a booklet and DVD package about Street Fighter II competition features a 'special interview' with him. I think he meets WP:BIO. --Kusunose 08:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

  See, this is how it should work. Kusunose did a trivial amount of legwork and found that there are good sources about him. If I had any semblance of how to cite japanese sources. I'd be all over this. Until then, I'm going to put in these articles as references.

  The DVD is barely skirting the edge of WP:RS; the production house, INH, consists of six people, and the only place it seems to be orderable from is their own website. Also I'm not too clear on the business relationship between INH and Capcom; if this is a product produced under licence or commission from Capcom, then it's not an independent source. Don't know what to say about Arcadia as I'm not closely familiar with Japanese video game magazines. cab 13:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

  Some further research shows that Arcadia Magazine's publisher Enterbrain are also the organiser of the Tougeki tournament in which Umehara participated (see bottom of [1] or enwiki's page on the subject at Tougeki - Super Battle Opera), so again, I don't think Arcadia qualifies as an independent source in this matter, but rather as a promoter with an obvious self-interest in hyping a participant in their company's tournament. Has Umehara been mentioned in more mainstream publications? cab 01:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep (as per my rebuttals above) McKay 08:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment What rebuttal? I just see beating on a straw man. JuJube 00:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per references mentioned above Neier 12:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• Relisting, debate continuing with new information Luigi30 (Taλk) 14:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and JuJube. MightyAtom 23:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Delete, but I want to keep it. He seems notable enough, but I don't see any sources proving it (sources that say "I know a source" don't count). Find something outside of gaming websites as a sources, and that spins around to a keep. Has anyone checked gaming publications? --UsaSatsui 19:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The sources cited by Kusunose, even if in Japanese, suggest some level of notability as a tournament arcade game player. Remove any material which is not backed by reliable sources and see what happens. (jarbarf) 19:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
• keep please we can avoid systemic bias and make notes of the japanese articles here yuckfoo 01:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

  Can you explain exactly what systemic bias I am demonstrating here? Do you think my past contributions on Wikipedia demonstrate a systemic bias against Japan-related topics without English coverage (see my userpage, for example)? I read the articles and did some checking about the magazines in which they were published. My response was in my comment above: I don't think Arcadia qualifies as an independent source in this matter, but rather as a promoter with an obvious self-interest in hyping a participant in their company's tournament. If this guy is truly notable, he would have been noted by publications without a direct financial interest in those tournaments. This is true whether you're talking about American gamers or Japanese gamers. Third time questioning: can you provide such sources? cab 05:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Agree with AfterDeath re: SRK.com notability. The main problem is the lack of sources. Also, WP:BASH —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GizzleWizzle (talk • contribs) 07:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.