Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cultural depictions of Ella Fitzgerald

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete per WP:NOT. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural depictions of Ella Fitzgerald

Cultural depictions of Ella Fitzgerald (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete - indiscriminate list and directory seeking to capture every time someone says the words "Ella Fitzgerald" in a movie or on TV. Strongly oppose merging any of this to the main Fitzgerald article. Otto4711 23:18, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep - this list was originally moved from the main Ella article, and I believe it is useful in showing how Fitzgerald's image has been constructed through popular culture. I also agree with this point, User_talk:Otto4711#Proposal_to_delete_.22popular_culture.22_articles the article really does help fill up rubbish from Ella's main article, tidbits that fans will only put back in :) Gareth E Kegg 00:21, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Then the people who edit Ella's article should delete the items instead of turning them into someone else's problem by making a worthless pop culture article. If better in this article then the main article is the best or the only reason for keeping this sort of article, then the article ought to go. And what exactly does "In the American sitcom 3rd Rock from the Sun, Sally Solomon orders a pizza with extra 'Mozzarella Fitzgerald'." and "In the sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Will's grandmother is mistaken for Ella Fitzgerald by an over-eager photographer." to offer two examples from the list, tell us anything about Fitzgerald or her image? Otto4711 01:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • And what makes something worthless pop culture? Cinema was worthless pop culture 100 years ago. By the late twentieth century it had become a topic of serious scholarly study. It actually took a doctoral dissertation to list all occurrences of Joan of Arc in film and unfortunately many of those early depictions are lost forever because, as worthless pop culture, no one had bothered to preserve them. The featured list about Joan of Arc has plenty of examples that would be equally vulnerable to ridicule if one were so inclined. These lists are in part sociological documents that answer the questions Does this person persist as a cultural figure or has her memory faded into obscurity? In what venues and media do these references appear? And how is she remembered? A biographer or a media historian would ask these questions and Wikipedia is ideally suited to document these occurrences before they - like the celluloid of a century ago - crumble into obscurity. DurovaCharge! 03:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

March 2007 (UTC)

  • "Worhtless" modifies the entire phrase "pop culture article." The pop culture may or may not be worthless. The article most certainly is. Otto4711 16:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, an indiscriminate list of vague puns on "Ella Fitzgerald" on sitcoms and such. Trivia should be integrated into the main article, tossing out questionable items like these, instead of being left to collect and rot in a separate article. — Krimpet (talk/review) 01:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete One of the poorer popular culture lists. Croxley 02:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Gareth E. Kegg argues that the article "is useful in showing how Fitzgerald's image has been constructed through popular culture." but I wonder whether we're reading the same article! The list is bare and presents absolutely no context or critical commentary that might make it ever so slightly encyclopedic. Pascal.Tesson 23:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep An article of this sort is a featured list: Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc. I'm willing to allow this thing a stay of execution and see if it can perhaps reach some level of encyclopedic quality. If I saw a terrible article on a subject that perhaps deserved an article I wouldn't vote delete and that's what I'm doing here. Quadzilla99 01:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep As the editor who created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc I'll speak up for this type of list. One of the main values of having this sort of thing is as a resource for parents and teachers who want to introduce a historical topic to young people without putting them to sleep. Ella Fitzgerald was one of the foremost vocalists in jazz history. A Simpsons cartoon may inspire curiosity about her in the same way many adults got their first introduction to Richard Wagner from a Bugs Bunny cartoon called What's Opera, Doc? or from the soundtrack to Apocalypse Now. Don't jettison this type of information. Improve on it. DurovaCharge! 13:12, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • With all due respect, I find it impossible to believe that a single person in the world ever will develop any curiosity over who Ella Fitzgerald was because Lisa Simpson said "Ella Fitzjello." There is no comparison between the Joan of Arc list and this list and quite frankly you do your work on that list a grave disservice by embracing the comparison. Otto4711 18:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I think you doubt the curiousity of children! It can take a little thing like that to spark their curiousty, and such things give them something to identify with, rather than the machinations of Ella's meeting Chick Webb. It has to be accepted that although wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it also comes top of any google search that kids will do for Ella or Frank etc Gareth E Kegg 10:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Wikipedia needs more defined rules for dealing with "popular culture references" sections. Bartleby 13:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
  • delete - the article begins by stating "This is a list of depictions in popular culture of the jazz singer, Ella Fitzgerald", but lists absolutely no depictions of Ella Fitzgerald - just puns on her name and vague references. I think a real article on "depictions in popular culture of the jazz singer Ella Fitzgerald" would be great for Wikipedia, but this article is not that - instead it seems like indiscriminate information. I also think Pascal.Tesson makes a good point above. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 23:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment I'm confused, you're saying the subject deserves an article, but the article is terrible (granted) so the article should be deleted? That doesn't make sense to me. Quadzilla99 02:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.