Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cruachan (band)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. @pple 09:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cruachan (band)

Cruachan (band) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable band. Only reference is their official webpage, so they fail WP:V. A Google search shows almost nothing related to them. Delete. Boricuaeddie 16:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep, they are notable for their unique blend of Irish/Celtic traditional music and heavy metal. The article needs to be expanded. Their MySpace page has been visited 34487 times so they're not an insignificant metal band. Emmaneul ^(Talk) 17:32, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Wow. We've reached a point where we're using myspace page hits and number of friends to establish notability. Incredible. Anyone can create a myspace page and claim to be a band. Myspace is not a reliable source. Do you have any sources or proof to show that they're "unique"? --Boricuaeddie 17:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

    Don't be silly, I did not use MySpace as a reliable source of information, just as an indication of the popularity of a band, like many editors use google hits. I found several articles of amateurish bands with links to MySpace pages which were visited +/- 400 times, then you know the band is not that popular. It's just an indication. Now to answer your question; there are tons of sources, you could have found them yourself...

    Here we go:

    [1] "Irish Black-Folk Metallers CRUACHAN debuted with the 1995 'Tuatha Na Gael' album and soon made a keen impression on the European Metal scene with their distinct brand of mythological branded music."

    [2] "Ireland's Cruachan isn't the world's first, nor the world's only "folk metal" band ... but they have arguably gone to the greatest lengths of anyone in their attempts to expand this still largely unexplored subgenre."

    [3] "Of the few bands that profess to be folk metal, Cruachan is arguably the folkiest -- many bands in this field are first and foremost metal bands with varying folk influences, but Cruachan almost does it the other way around, as their heavily Celtic folk aspect is as predominant as the metal aspect in their sound."

    [4] "Cruachan have a unique sound, and this is an interesting and enjoyable CD."

    [5] "Cruachan is one of the longest active bands that blend metal with folk"

    __

    And I can find more. Cheers, Emmaneul ^(Talk) 21:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

    I seriously doubt the reliability of those sites. Anyway, they don't prove they meet WP:MUSIC. You're going to need more proof than that if you're trying to convince me that they meet WP:MUSIC#C7. --Boricuaeddie 21:49, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

    Cruachan definitely meet WP:MUSIC#C7 - the "notable style" here would be Celtic metal, local scene of a city I guess would be the Irish metal scene in general. I know this isn't a particularly great indicator, but if you look at folk metal bands from Ireland on MetalStorm, you'll see that Cruachan is the biggest, with 35 fans. Primordial have only 23. MetalStorm doesn't consider other Irish folk metal bands to be even big enough to be worth listing. You'll see similar trends if you look at last.fm: Cruachan page has 376,979 plays and Primordial have 198,868 plays. Smaller bands like Geasa and Waylander have only 11,007 and 38,010 respectively. I think it's fair to say that Cruachan "has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city" - that scene/style being Irish metal/Celtic metal, and therefore meeting WP:MUSIC#C7. Defintely a Strong Keep. TheguX 22:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

    And that's only #C7. Leon Sword correctly pointed out that the band would also meet WP:MUSIC#C5. TheguX 22:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

    See also the celtic metal tag page on last.fm - Cruachan are the top artist tagged as "celtic metal" by a mile. TheguX 02:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. This band clearly meets criteria #5 under WP:MUSIC#Criteria for musicians and ensembles. The band has released two or more albums through Hammerheart Records/Karmageddon Media. Furthermore, this band also meets criteria #1. You can see examples of independent third party sources above. This AfD appears to be a good candidate for the snowball clause. --Leon Sword 22:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Barely. But merge the members! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 04:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
• Also, the reason for the Google search showing up very little referring to the band is because Cruachan is also the name of a place in Ireland. Searches like cruachan band, cruachan metal and cruachan music show up much more relevant results. "Cruachan music" even finds a link to a Cruachan page on Google music. I think it's clear that Cruachan are in fact a notable band, and meet more than one of the criteria in WP:MUSIC. TheguX 02:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Merge the members' articles, though. The external sources provided above show that they have received some coverage, and thus meet WP:MUSIC #1 and #5 at least. Neranei (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete page up since April, 2005, still no independent references on the page. That tells me something. Wikipedia doesn't work on trust. MarkinBoston 02:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
• keep but tidy up and incorporate sources and band members. 87.127.44.154 06:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.