Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crescent Park Elementary School

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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Neutralitytalk 01:48, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Crescent Park Elementary School

If it was a high school I would have kept but it is a nn elementary school that like all other elementary schools normally get erased in VFD and this one is no different Delete --Aranda56 05:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep We won on high schools in the end, and I am confident of the same long term result for primary schools as people gradually let go of the idea that Wikipedia should somehow resemble Britannica. CalJW 09:11, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • You won? I had no idea wikipedia was a game or contest. Sabine's Sunbird 00:05, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Keep we winning the fight aginst school deletionism. Klonimus 04:31, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
        • I can just picture the War on School Deletionism joining the War on Drugs and the War on Terrorism in American history textbooks in the 'Battle Against Nouns' series. Next week: the War on Litter. Lord Bob 05:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
        • This is a defensive action in the War against a comprehensive wikipedia which have no choice but to fight. Kappa 09:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
          • A comprehensive wikipedia includes every band that ever existed, including garage bands and every non-notable person on the planet. --Prosfilaes 12:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
            • Interesting thesis. However such claims have nothing to do whatsoever with schools.--Nicodemus75 14:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
              • It is a logical consequence of the argument that schools should be kept because Wikipedia should be comprehensive.--Prosfilaes 14:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
                • No it isn't.--Nicodemus75 15:14, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
                  • The War against a comprehensive wikipedia doesn't really assume good faith now then does it? Perhaps you would benefit from thinking of it as the Ongoing debate and discussion on what level of detail is needed to create a comprehensive wikipedia, which while not trpping off the tongue at least frames the disagreement in a way that shows that we have the same goal (a comprehensive wikipedia) with diverging views on how to get there. Sabine's Sunbird 15:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
                    • Discussion is a non-destructive activity, unlike deletion. Kappa 23:46, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep because this is an elementary school which is notable. The statement that "all other elementary schools normally get erased" is patently false. Evidence of the contrary is clearly documented at Wikipedia:Watch/schoolwatch/Votes for deletion archive and User:GRider/Schoolwatch/Archive. There only appear to be 2 elementary schools deleted since improvement efforts targeting school-related articles began in March 2005. Two elementary school articles deleted, out of roughly 180 school-related pages nominated for deletion. I do believe you are right on one point though; the outcome here will be no different. Bahn Mi 10:34, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Almost all those schools that was nominated was High Schools. Saw a few elementary schools around and like half of those were deleted --Aranda56 19:37, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually, with Tony having abandoned the Schoolwatch program as well as his not voting or improving school articles, elementary schools are in great short-term danger on an article-by-article basis. However, the long-term situation is that all schools will be part of WP due to the great rate of school creation.--Nicodemus75 10:44, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
      • As will all bands. Moreover, not all schools, only schools in areas that have a large Wikipedia presense, that have Wikipedias going to them. It's not an argument for vanity articles that they were overwhelm the good ones.--Prosfilaes 01:54, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a school.--Nicodemus75 10:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and stop nominating schools. --Ryan Delaney talk 11:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Just because something is a school doesn't mean it should never be nominated for deletion. Articles on people need to show some reason why they're important and so should schools. As long as short school articles with no such info pop up, people will keep nominating them. - Mgm|(talk) 22:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, important school for education in Bethel, Maine. --Vsion 11:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Bethel Maine is a town of just a little more than 2000 people so it is only important for only 2000 people so its still very non-notable. The elementary school nearby got about 2000 students but that doesn't mean it is still notable. There should be a limit on schools I belive. All High schools and higher should be kept and im willing to expand on it but under that it is Way to much unless it is signifantly expanded in which in this case it won't too small of a school.--Aranda56 19:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Pilatus 11:23, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete another primary school of utter nonimportance. Dunc|☺ 11:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, another important primary school. Please think of the users. Kappa 11:53, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - the fact that this article is about a school should wrap this one up. See WP:SCH. --Celestianpower hab 13:06, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia content is not and should not be determined based on the arbitrary application of such vague, relative concepts as "importance" or "notability". Keep.--Gene_poole 13:31, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
So what are you basing your vote on? - Mgm|(talk) 22:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
The fact that it is an enduring public facility whose existence is verifiable, obviously. It's the same principle that we apply - without any of the controversy attending schools - to articles on railway stations, bridges, highways and other public institutions and infrastructure. --Gene_poole 00:01, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
We delete a lot of roads, and there's a couple orders of magnitude fewer highways than schools.--Prosfilaes 00:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
So schools are less encyclopedic than highways because there are more of them? Fascinating "logic". --Gene_poole 03:21, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Things that aren't rare aren't interesting. Every one knows about the nine planets, but how many people really know anything about any of the asteroids? No one even bothers naming every ant in their ant colony, but everyone names their dogs and cats. In any case, did you or anyone else actually go to Crescent Park Elementary School and go "oh, cool, I didn't know that"? Or was it just another elementary school you'd have to fight over?--Prosfilaes 12:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm amazed at the staggering presumption of people who believe that because something is of no importance to them, personally, now, it is never going to have any significance to anyone, ever. As Wikipedia editors we have a responsibility to future historians, social scientists and our descendants to document precisely this sort of data as a record of our times.--Gene_poole 04:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I asked you whether it was of importance to you; you didn't answer. I'm amazed at the staggering presumption of people who think they know what future historians and social scientists will care about (our ancestors certainly didn't), and at the gall to assume that Wikipedia must be hijacked to serve the needs of future historians. I'm sure if they want to know about the school system, there's a Department of Education report that gives more useful information then Wikipedia, and that for every school. Personally, I think that future historians might be very intersted in garage bands and what they mean about the role and level of average people as artistic creators, and find it much harder to get their hands on the information. But I don't think that's a hole that Wikipedia is designed to fill.--Prosfilaes 12:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm afraid your comments betray a rather limited understanding of the social sciences, and the historic foundation and purpose of encyclopedism. --Gene_poole 23:04, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Ah, yes. When in doubt, sneer at your opponent's alleged lack of knowledge instead of addressing the claims. Avoid explaining anything, since that might undermine your case. I don't see anything on Encyclopédie that would include listing any schools at all.--Prosfilaes 02:45, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, lest Wikipedia become a second rate directory. Jonathunder 15:27, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep -- A public school - Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia. --Mysidia (talk) 15:52, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. A non-notable public school. Wikipedia is not a directory. / Peter Isotalo 16:25, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. -- DS1953 16:47, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, schools are notable. -GregAsche (talk) 18:26, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, elementary schools are not inherently notable. Lord Bob 21:29, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Usual reasons. WMMartin 21:56, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete elementary schools for heaven's sake. It's a building in which nonnotable things happen. There's a gas station and liquor store a block away from here that is just as deserving of an article. ESkog 21:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There are a lot of non notable schools in the world. Any attempt at comprehensive coverage would require its own wiki. This information is useless to an encyclopedia. TheMadBaron 22:27, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete; just because it's there doesn't mean that somebody's going to come looking for it. More work to do, more strain on the servers, something clogging stuff up when you hit "random page". Why not direct our efforts towards something useful? ♥purplefeltangel (talk) ♥ (Contributions) 23:57, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • You don't have to work on it if you don't want to. If no-one comes looking for it, it won't put any strain on the servers. "Why not direct our efforts towards something useful?" exactly, let's stop fighting about schools and we can get back to subdivisions of Chad or whatever. Kappa 00:34, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
      • You think that hard drive space has no cost, that bloating the Recent Changes list to the point that no one can follow vandals has no cost, that giving vandals a doorway to stick virtually unverifiable information in Wikipedia has no cost?--Prosfilaes 01:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
        • I don't that the cost of hard drive space is very significant at 2 million words per penny. If school articles have no edits, they won't bload the recent changes list, if they do have edits, people will fix any vandalism. Kappa 09:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
          • It's 2 million words per penny only if you don't care about your data or the speed of I/O. RAIDed SCSI drives, for a server like Wikipedia, cost a lot more. And how will they fix vandalism? If I start Joe Mercer Elementary School and write that it's in Alva, Oklahoma, what are the odds that any of the one or two Wikipedians that know anything about elementary schools in Alva, Oklahoma will notice and fix it? What if I change something on Crescent Park Elementary School long after this VfD has been forgotten, say the number of students, how many people will know whether it's correct or not?--Prosfilaes 12:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge with Bethel, Maine. Local notability only. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:44, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, it's a little elementary school. It's nothing to do with the servers or 'clogging things up', it's the vague and fading dream that Wikipedia should actually have some kind of quality control, ensuring only things that are encyclopaedic have, you know, an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia is NOT Everything2. Wikipedia is not a web directory. Wikipedia is not toilet paper. Sadly, too many Wikipedians really, really want to see Wikipedia regurgitate every inconsequential, non-notable, unimportant collection of four walls and a roof back onto the internet. It does no harm for these 'articles' to exist? Today schools, tomorrow every church, every branch of McDonalds, every pub, every telegraph pole, every field, and so on, ad nauseum. A line needs to be drawn. The only people that would care about this information (the good people of Bethel, Maine) would already have it. Grrrrargh. Proto t c 09:45, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
If Wikipedia had an article on every enduring institution and piece of public infrastructure in the world that would indeed be a wonderful achievement. We might then rightly be considered truly encyclopedic. --Gene_poole 00:01, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Elementary schools are not 'enduring institutions' - they are a building that teachers work in. Wikipedia would be far more wonderful if it went for quality, not quantity. Proto t c 12:13, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Elementary schools are not enduring institutions? Maybe on your planet, but most of us here are from Earth. --Gene_poole 04:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes they are. No it wouldn't.--Nicodemus75 14:31, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I have a phone book; should I wikify all the people in it real quickly? Or I could start adding entries for every birth announcement in the newspaper?--Prosfilaes 12:55, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know, should you? --Nicodemus75 14:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
That would be a logical thing to do, if Wikipedia were to go for quantity, not quality.--Prosfilaes 14:40, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
No it wouldn't.--Nicodemus75 15:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete; I think it quite presumptous to think that even most of the people of Bethel, Maine care about this school.--Prosfilaes 12:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge with Bethel, Maine OR delete outright. Carries the problem of systemic bias to new lows, with scattered random non-notable little schools getting articles. --Calton | Talk 21:06, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
  • keep please gene poole is right so why should we erase these great institutions if we keep railway stations and bridges this has nothing at all to do with fast food restaurants its about schools Yuckfoo 00:17, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete not worthwhile --redstucco 10:04, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete yet another completely nn school. Dottore So 15:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep for reasons expressed at Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Silensor 19:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
    • We need more votes for this article so far it looks like a no consious.--Aranda56 23:24, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
      • What on earth does this mean? "We need more votes"??? You've already expressed your opinions above. There is no concensus on school articles and the vast majority survive the AfD process. There are plenty of AfD nominations for schools every week that clearly demonstrate this to be the case. Some bizarre statement that "we need more votes" is truly baffling. We will continue to vote until we are blue in the face, but there will still be no concensus.--Nicodemus75 04:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. I heard from Aranda56 that we needed more votes for this article. —RaD Man (talk) 08:43, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep I heard from Radman's sisters' aunts' brothers' cousins' girlfriends' sister that this needed to be kept!  ALKIVAR™ 18:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve. --rob 09:13, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per Proto Cmadler 19:12, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Christopher Parham (talk) 21:38, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep and because I find school articles interesting. Unfocused 14:38, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.