Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Country Club Mall
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. There was a clear consensus for deletion. The arguments for keeping were not sufficiently strong to overcome that consensus. There were three relevant sources, one of which was a directory-type entry, one a passing mention of a transaction and the other a statutory notice; insufficient in my view to meet WP:N. TerriersFan (talk) 17:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Country Club Mall
Non-notable mall in Maryland, fails WP:RS. At only 500K square feet (source), it falls short of super-regional status. Tagged for references since August with no improvement. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 23:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Malls-related deletion discussions. -- Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 23:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete It seems to fail to indicate why it is notable. Being "the largest shopping mall in Western Maryland west of Sideling Hill" just doesn't scream notability without something else, preferably cited. Pharmboy (talk) 00:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete per 3.937 kg Hammer. Edison (talk) 05:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete Non-notable mall. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 10:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. —User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 15:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Keep:Relatively short article that can be improved. Has one reference already, and more can be added. Has some major anchor stores found at many notable malls. May not be read a lot, which is why it hasn't been improved, but length of article and amount of readership are not criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia, nor are there any deadlines for improving an article. I am still looking for more information about the history of the mall, which should be included, and would provide more references. Sebwite (talk) 00:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
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- The key question is: What fact is being presented in the article that makes this mall 'notable' and not just another mall. If there isn't something that stands out and seperates it from just 'an ordinary mall', then it is just 'an ordinary mall', which is not notable by itself. 1000 citations about the mall existing doesn't assert any notability, so the number of references is meaningless until some notability is claimed. Pharmboy (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- Notability does not mean fame or uniqueness. It is debateable what makes something notable, but it doesn't have to be different from any other of its type. One thing that all agree is required to be considered notable is that it has to be covered by reliable outside sources. See WP:Notability for more details.Sebwite (talk) 21:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment According to WP:Notability, A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. which would disqualify chamber of commerce and similar entities, and only serves as the basics of the definiton. Notability can be fame or uniqueness, although I don't remember using those terms as how to define notability to begin with. My argument and reasoning still stands and conforms to policy: Something about the place must be different or at least special at the very least, just to make a claim of notability. Pharmboy (talk) 16:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Response Presently, I am looking through the more than 17,000 Google hits on the mall to find notable information that can be used in the article. This is a time-consuming process, but I am sure I will find something. Already, I have found that the mall is a hub for the region's transit system. Though the chamber of commerce site is the one I listed that said it was the only mall within a certain distance, this is very likely written elsewhere as well.Sebwite (talk) 01:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- comment And if you find it, please bring it here. People who vote to 'delete' are supposed to do so after trying to see if it is notable, but that doesn't require fishing through all 17,000 ghits, just a good faith attempt. If something is found, added, cited and brought here, I would be happy to have a reason to reverse my opinion. My opinion to delete isn't because it is "this" mall, it is because it is any mall that hasn't established notability per policy. I don't think being the only mall in $x miles qualifies, but if there is something unique to being the hub (first electric train in the state, etc.) then it might squeak by, or perhaps something else that qualifies. Otherwise, every mall in the usa would be here, and Wikipedia is pretty set about not being a directory for all malls/businesses/etc. Pharmboy (talk) 01:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Response Presently, I am looking through the more than 17,000 Google hits on the mall to find notable information that can be used in the article. This is a time-consuming process, but I am sure I will find something. Already, I have found that the mall is a hub for the region's transit system. Though the chamber of commerce site is the one I listed that said it was the only mall within a certain distance, this is very likely written elsewhere as well.Sebwite (talk) 01:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- Comment According to WP:Notability, A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. which would disqualify chamber of commerce and similar entities, and only serves as the basics of the definiton. Notability can be fame or uniqueness, although I don't remember using those terms as how to define notability to begin with. My argument and reasoning still stands and conforms to policy: Something about the place must be different or at least special at the very least, just to make a claim of notability. Pharmboy (talk) 16:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Notability does not mean fame or uniqueness. It is debateable what makes something notable, but it doesn't have to be different from any other of its type. One thing that all agree is required to be considered notable is that it has to be covered by reliable outside sources. See WP:Notability for more details.Sebwite (talk) 21:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- 'Has some major anchor stores found at many notable malls' is not a reason to keep or to establish notability. Generally the stores at a mall are something that is mentioned after notability is established. It is not the cause of notability except in rare cases and this is not one of those. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- The key question is: What fact is being presented in the article that makes this mall 'notable' and not just another mall. If there isn't something that stands out and seperates it from just 'an ordinary mall', then it is just 'an ordinary mall', which is not notable by itself. 1000 citations about the mall existing doesn't assert any notability, so the number of references is meaningless until some notability is claimed. Pharmboy (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
- keep - but only just! In all good conscious I had to wait till Sebwite's additions. Being the only facillity in that radius (with Cite) is notable. Exit2DOS2000•T•C• 05:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
- Delete. Simply put, there is no assertion of notability. Also fails WP:CORP. So this is just another run of the mill US mall. Waiting for someone to add notability does not mean we keep the article. Vegaswikian (talk) 04:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
