Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cottonwood Mall (Albuquerque, New Mexico)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 04:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cottonwood Mall (Albuquerque, New Mexico)

Cottonwood Mall (Albuquerque, New Mexico) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

A directory entry for a mall. No actual evidence of notability, references provided appear to be either directories, trivial, or not independent (e.g. press releases). Guy (Help!) 11:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete unless some evidence can be found as to why this is any more notable than any other big shopping mall. - Iridescenti (talk to me!) 12:54, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Strong Keep. I wrote this article -- in part because New Mexico was the only state with none of its malls listed on Wikipedia, and in part because I felt the mall was notable. I haven't been able to find any solid sources that prove the mall's the biggest in the state (strangely, their website makes no mention of it), but really, could so many independent sources all be wrong? Furthermore, I made some additions to the article, including the fact that it was built on land once owned by King Philip IV of Spain. Now how many other malls can make a claim like that? TenPoundHammer 13:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• KeepThis doesn't look like a directory entry. Anyway some of the sources do seem to be press releases, but better mainstream newspaper sources seem to exist in spades [1]. No real problem, article just needs some improvement. --W.marsh 13:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment Unfortunately, every ****ing one of those newspaper sources requires a subscription. TenPoundHammer 14:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment Through that interface yes, but there are other news search engines. My public library, for example, offers one to anyone with a library card number. A college library is even better. It's better than nothing, but the information superhighway still has too many toll roads. --W.marsh 14:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

• I originally tagged this to be speedy deleted. Since then a lot more information has been introduced. I feel notability has been assessed since it shows it is the largest mall in the state of New Mexico. Also, the lawsuit provides historical context. Because of this, I say keep. --Адам12901 ^Talk 14:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep bad faith nomination like the rest this editor has nominated--Matrix17 15:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Article makes explicit claims of notability in terms of largest in NM, and provides ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn 16:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep It has a gross leasable area of over 1 million sqaure feet. Anything over 800,000 is considered a superregional mall per the industry definition. Notable on that basis, in adition to the sources cited. Edison 20:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Didn't all of the southwest of the United States once belong to King Philip IV? If the Alameda Grant fact is the only notable fact about this mall, maybe an article should be created about the Alameda Grant. I don't think the "biggest mall in New Mexico' qualifies it for notability either: there are so few other malls in New Mexico, less than 10 all together. The other facts in the article are non-noteworthy also (large organizations get sued frequently, and lists of stores are uninteresting). Jaksmata 20:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete The apparent justification for this article is the New Mexico has no other article about any of its malls. This has also been phrased more conventionally as "The biggest mall in New Mexico." Further, "When Cottonwood Mall opened in 1996, it was the first mall to open in Albuquerque in thirty years.[4][5] To this day, it is the newest shopping mall in New Mexico." Does the newest mall in a state automatically get an article? Each of them in succession, because N is permanent? DGG 01:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment The fact that New Mexico has no other mall articles was a justification, but it wasn't my only justification. I figured that it's notable since it's the biggest in New Mexico, AND the newest in the same, AND home to a co-op bookstore, AND on land once owned by King Philip IV. I've noticed that importance is quite often questioned with the mall articles, but being the inclusionist that I am, I'll give most malls the benefit of the doubt, this one being no exception. Maybe it's not important to the whole world, but one could argue the point that not even Mall of America is necessarily important to the whole damn world. I don't create pages on Wikipedia just to create them (at least, not anymore) -- I actually put considerable thought into a subject's notability first. I'm aware that notability is, at least sometimes, a matter of opinion; however, I hope that by stating my own opinion, that others may see my side of the issue. They may still vote for deletion, but if they do, c'est la vie. TenPoundHammer 02:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment If it is correct that the whole state was included in the land grant, that argument doesn't help, and not all coop bookstores are N, though in an ideal world they would be. And, there were 29 other malls joining in the court case mentioned above. I am certainly not implying the article wasn't created in a reasonable way. for the largest mall in a state to have an article is not absurdly wrong, though I don't think it's right. I too will go by the consensus. (By the way, any info. on relative amounts of business in the various malls in the state? That might help show N more than square footage). DGG 01:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment The land grant didn't include the entire state at all. As for the relative amount of business, I can't find anything on that. I've googled about 40,000 possible word combinations, yet nothing's yielded anything about profitability at ANY mall in New Mexico. TenPoundHammer 02:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep, supermalls are notable, and this article does pass WP:A and other relevant content policies. Yamaguchi先生 03:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I don't know where people are getting the idea that this is a "super mall" or a "superregional mall" – where did that standard come from? This is only an average sized mall, which can be verified by perusing through entries in List of shopping malls in the United States. I guess the real question is, "Is a mall notable just because it’s a mall?" That same list has many entries with less content and notability, but they're not up for deletion. Has this question come up before? I haven't seen any Wikipedia policies or guidelines on the subject of mall notability. Also, several of the people who have said "Keep" insist that the information is all verifiable - that has never been questioned. Jaksmata 04:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, as malls of this size are notable. Why are we wasting time on this? I thought we settled on a guideline for malls ages ago. RFerreira 08:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, seems notable enough as said many times above. DCUnitedFan2011 16:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.