Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Consensual Sound

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Luigi30 (Ταλκ το mε) 13:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consensual Sound

Delete - Non-notable musical group that fails to meet WP:BAND. Prod notice removed without comment. Gwernol 01:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• I commented on the talk page when I took the prod down -- was I supposed to comment somewhere else?

"Thanks! I believe it is notable. It: 1) went to Austria during spring break and performed there, 2) has produced an album and will produce another at the end of the month, 3) has done well in a national competition, and 4) had a member (Ethan Heard) who is currently in a notable group, The Whiffenpoofs Lorboy 00:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)"

Lorboy 01:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• Lorboy: I believe Gwernol meant that in your edit summary, you didn't mention that you had a comment on the talk page.
• Gwernol: Did you check the talk page? If you did, maybe Lorboy was too slow between removing prod and adding a comment.
  • I had checked the talk page, but missed the update for the prod removal. Bad timing I think, sorry about that. Gwernol 02:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• I really don't know. I found myself wondering about school a capella groups after I ran across one or two. I'm sure they're more notable than some of these forgettable punk bands that squeak past WP:MUSIC. Hey, at least they're probably not on Wikipedia to sell albums. Also, are they any less notable than Dingoes Ate My Baby? Brian G. Crawford 01:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak delete. The Whiffenpoofs are certainly notable, but this is a singing group at a private high school. Unless they've been in existence for many, many years, or are otherwise notable (e.g., mainstream media coverage; cd sales) they don't appear to be greatly more notable than a high school club. I don't think a yearly album meets the standards of WP:MUSIC, and a single "tour" (which sounds more like the trip my high school French class took) is not enough. Having a member who went on to be a Whiffenpoof doesn't sway me; the Whiffenpoofs are a very large group of people who are otherwise mostly non-notable. I could be convinced by media coverage, evidence of cultural notability (the 'poofs were on West Wing, for example), or by other references supporting a claim to WP:MUSIC or more generally to WP:N. bikeable (talk) 02:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Roughly on the same level as a high-school student club or team as far as notability goes. I'd hate to set a very dangerous precedent by keeping this due to the very thin Whiffenpoofs connection... if Madonna played in her school marching band, does that make that band notable too? Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 03:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Student organizations that exist at only a single school are generally non-notable. Although The Whiffenpoofs are notable, citing the fact that a member of this group went on to join the Whiffenpoofs as a claim that this group is notable would be an overly literal mis-application of WP:MUSIC. The Whiffs must have had hundreds of members in their history and the Whiffs' notability does not carry over to their individual members, much less to other musical groups those members had previously been in. --Metropolitan90 07:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Ethan Heard having been in the Whiffenpoofs. WP:MUSIC says it should be notable due to that connection. Jcuk 10:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• I think you are wrong here. The Whiffenpoofs is not a band with a settled line-up, it is a university choral society with a history going back nearly 100 years. It's a bit like saying that every single person who ever performed with the BBC Singers or the Huddersfield Choral Society is inherently notable, and by extension every single musical enterprise in which they subsequently participate is also notable. Another analogy: the Cambridge Footlights is notable for certain sure, and many of its former members are notable, but being a former member of the Footlights does not make for notability - look at the list of past members and you get an average of around one or two a year who become famous, which is an incredibly high hit rate for a university club but still way below 100%. How many genuinely famous former Whiffenpoofs are there? The article lists one: Cole Porter. Just zis Guy you know? 15:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. This is a school club. While WP:MUSIC does say that connection with a notable band is a criterion for inclusion the full text reads: "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such." (emphasis added). Furthermore, the connection with a notable band criterion was intended for the former bands of famous musicians rather than high school clubs of people who join a group, which over the years has had hundreds on members. If Ethan Heard had been a member of The Beatles, then it might make sense to simply change this article into a redirect, but in the subject of this article is not even worthy enough for that. Ethan Heard is not even notable enough to have his own page, let alone a page for a club he belonged to in high school. NoIdeaNick 10:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, certainly debatable, but I just don't think they meet WP:MUSIC.--Isotope23 16:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Sidwell Friends School. Fails WP:MUSIC. Let the normal editors of that article decide if this group deserves to be named there or not. -- ReyBrujo 16:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Insufficiently notable. Zaxem 17:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete not quite notable Computerjoe's talk 20:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Sidwell Friends School is a good solution The article is overlong as written (Current Repertoire/Past Repertoire & Alumni are all way more than we need to know)-- heavily edited it would make a fine graf in a school article. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:45, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
• Question: How would merging and redirecting work? Could I delete Repertoire & Alumni and make it into a mini-article with a link to it in the school article, or would I delete the whole thing and have a small description of the group on the school article? -- Lorboy 02:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment From what I see, this article must be ruled per WP:MUSIC guidelines, and the band does not meet any of the exceptions there. Thus, the article should be deleted. However, a section of the article (or a shortened version of this article) could be included in a notable article that is not going to be deleted. Thus, even if you delete the repertoire and the alumni, the fact that the band is not notable according to Wikipedia still exists, and the article would be deleted (always if people consider, as me, that it is failing WP:MUSIC. What some suggest is that you merge the information from this article in another. Basically, the lead paragraph, plus mention to the notable performances would become a section of the Sidwell Friends School, probably named Consensual Sound. There is no need to include past or present repertoire. As for past and current members, I wouldn't include the names or may appear vanity. Note that, while there are only a couple of editors that worked in the Consensual Sound article, there have been well over a dozen in Sidwell Friends School. This is my "friendly" solution where the AFD is related to a notable one, but does not hold notability by itself. By putting this information into the notable article, the people who edits that article can decide whether the band (in this case, Consensual Sound) is notable enough to be part of the school article. If the people who usually edit the school believes Consensual Sound isn't notable enough, the information will be deleted (thus disappearing completely from Wikipedia). However, there is a chance that they may consider this information to be important, thus letting at least part of the deleted article be kept in another article. Hope that makes everything clear. -- ReyBrujo 04:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Not notable per Allmusic, Google, Amazon. -- Krash (Talk) 13:48, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.