Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clubbell
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Delete. El_C 11:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Clubbell
Entry is little more than an advertisement for a specific product coupled with unsubstantiated original research; the general class of item already has an entry at Indian clubs. Wikipedia is not a product guide. fbb_fan 10:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Weak delete per nom--Jusjih 11:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Keep The tool is better known than the Indian Club, and more widely used. Regardless of whether it's a brandname, it's critical info--B-ham 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Another thing - it's considered appropriate to say if you are a primary author or significant contributor to the article being discussed, as you are in this case. This is discussed on WP:AFD. fbb_fan 17:39, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Better known and more widely used according to who? I fail to see how this is "critical" information. It looks more like a violation of WP:SPAM (specifically the section "Advertisements masquerading as articles") to me. fbb_fan 03:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Better known by simple google search. Compare internet discussions on various fitness boards, and although its a commercial brand, when people discuss "Indian clubs" which is now taken as more of a racial slur, people discuss "clubbells" --B-ham 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Please see WP:REF. Internet discussions are not regarded as appropriate source material for Wikipedia. fbb_fan 14:52, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. You see WP:REF. Five internet magazines (Dolphzine, Girevik, Powerathletes, Testosterone, and Depew Fitness) each have interviews about the Clubbell not the Indian Club. B-ham 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. You referred to "internet discussions on various fitness boards" - as you can see if you read the guideline, this is not an acceptable source. So I will ask again - please provide a citation that indicates that the clubbell is "better known than the Indian club, and more widely used." It is not my responsibility to track down sources for you - the onus is on you to provide appropriate sources to establish the notability. A few sites having "interviews" about the Clubbell isn't that significant - that sounds like nothing more than product reviews. As mentioned previously, Wikipedia is not a product guide. fbb_fan 16:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. It is not my responsibility to prove that the largest online fitness magazines on the internet are "significant" as per WP:REF. Since for some reason you're a female bodybuilding fan, Bodybuilding.com, the largest online bodybuilding resource, publishes his articles, as well as the fact that he is a regular presenter for the Arnold Classic Fitness Expo http://www.arnoldclassic.com/ B-ham 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. You referred to "internet discussions on various fitness boards" - as you can see if you read the guideline, this is not an acceptable source. So I will ask again - please provide a citation that indicates that the clubbell is "better known than the Indian club, and more widely used." It is not my responsibility to track down sources for you - the onus is on you to provide appropriate sources to establish the notability. A few sites having "interviews" about the Clubbell isn't that significant - that sounds like nothing more than product reviews. As mentioned previously, Wikipedia is not a product guide. fbb_fan 16:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. You see WP:REF. Five internet magazines (Dolphzine, Girevik, Powerathletes, Testosterone, and Depew Fitness) each have interviews about the Clubbell not the Indian Club. B-ham 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Please see WP:REF. Internet discussions are not regarded as appropriate source material for Wikipedia. fbb_fan 14:52, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Better known by simple google search. Compare internet discussions on various fitness boards, and although its a commercial brand, when people discuss "Indian clubs" which is now taken as more of a racial slur, people discuss "clubbells" --B-ham 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Spamalicious Guyanakoolaid 10:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Yet another spam page for Scott Sonnon and crew. Dsreyn 01:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Who is "Scott Sonnon's crew"? I don't see anything spamming about this tool. Even Kleenex has a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleenex B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. I'm sure you think the Clubbell page isn't spam, since you created the page (and as has already been pointed out to you here and in other AfD's, you should disclose when you are the primary author of the page being discussed). I was referring to the flock of Sonnon-related pages you have created (which account for nearly all of your Wikipedia contributions) - Scott Sonnon, RMAX, RMAX International, Prasara, and Prasara Body-Flow. Except for the entry on Sonnon himself, all of these are essentially thinly disguised advertisements for interests which Sonnon is involved with. The appropriate guidelines relating to these types of entries have already been pointed out to you, here and elsewhere. Dsreyn 02:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. And WHO again is this "crew" of Dr. Sonnon's that you allude to? Conspiracies kill the brain.:) There was no "flock" of pages on Sonnon, there were only four: regarding the method of yoga he has shared with the world, the tool he created to help people become more fit, the community service organization which he has created philanthropically donating his time to thousands, and oh, a biography on who this humanitarian is. I offered them all to wikipedia, yes. Do you feel better? Go ahead and vote your heart out to have them deleted. You're only doing wiki researchers a disservice. Whatever.B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Who said anything about a conspiracy? You listed several of his colleagues / associates / business partners in the RMAX International article, so why are you now asking who these people are? Are you now suggesting that it's a one-man operation? And it's six pages, not four - the five I listed previously, plus Clubbell. Dsreyn 18:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. There weren't any separate pages listed for his teammates, who are each accomplished world champions in their respective sports: boxing, san shou, tai chi and MMA. There was no "crew" just a one line reference to others who are faculty for their team. I listed the tool he create to help people become fit - the "clubbell".
Get over yourself and your conspiracies.B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)- Comment. Sorry, I thought I explained my previous statement clearly enough. The Wikipedia entry for crew starts with A crew comprises a body or a class of people who work at a common activity, generally in a structured or hierarchical organization. In any case, from your closing remark, it's clear that you need to read yet another part of WP:AFD: Don't make personal attacks against people who disagree with you. Along with the other policies and guidelines that have already been suggested to you, you might also consider reading WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Please refrain from conspiracy accusations in the future. Dsreyn 19:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Sorry. Retracted.B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Sorry, I thought I explained my previous statement clearly enough. The Wikipedia entry for crew starts with A crew comprises a body or a class of people who work at a common activity, generally in a structured or hierarchical organization. In any case, from your closing remark, it's clear that you need to read yet another part of WP:AFD: Don't make personal attacks against people who disagree with you. Along with the other policies and guidelines that have already been suggested to you, you might also consider reading WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Please refrain from conspiracy accusations in the future. Dsreyn 19:51, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. There weren't any separate pages listed for his teammates, who are each accomplished world champions in their respective sports: boxing, san shou, tai chi and MMA. There was no "crew" just a one line reference to others who are faculty for their team. I listed the tool he create to help people become fit - the "clubbell".
- Comment. Who said anything about a conspiracy? You listed several of his colleagues / associates / business partners in the RMAX International article, so why are you now asking who these people are? Are you now suggesting that it's a one-man operation? And it's six pages, not four - the five I listed previously, plus Clubbell. Dsreyn 18:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. And WHO again is this "crew" of Dr. Sonnon's that you allude to? Conspiracies kill the brain.:) There was no "flock" of pages on Sonnon, there were only four: regarding the method of yoga he has shared with the world, the tool he created to help people become more fit, the community service organization which he has created philanthropically donating his time to thousands, and oh, a biography on who this humanitarian is. I offered them all to wikipedia, yes. Do you feel better? Go ahead and vote your heart out to have them deleted. You're only doing wiki researchers a disservice. Whatever.B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. I'm sure you think the Clubbell page isn't spam, since you created the page (and as has already been pointed out to you here and in other AfD's, you should disclose when you are the primary author of the page being discussed). I was referring to the flock of Sonnon-related pages you have created (which account for nearly all of your Wikipedia contributions) - Scott Sonnon, RMAX, RMAX International, Prasara, and Prasara Body-Flow. Except for the entry on Sonnon himself, all of these are essentially thinly disguised advertisements for interests which Sonnon is involved with. The appropriate guidelines relating to these types of entries have already been pointed out to you, here and elsewhere. Dsreyn 02:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Who is "Scott Sonnon's crew"? I don't see anything spamming about this tool. Even Kleenex has a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleenex B-ham 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- Delete: For a number of reasons as noted above. For next few months, we must concentrate on improving the existing pages, instead of adding 1000s of exotic pages. We should remember: Wales to upgrade quality of Wiki. --Bhadani 18:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
- redirect to indian club, which is generic term. Brand name may be mentioned there, but separate article is not notable topic. Mukadderat 00:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
