Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clown Mass

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was clown delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 11:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clown Mass

Delete as non-notable and unencyclopedic. For becoming "increasingly common," the so-called "illicit" clown mass is in general not widely talked about.[1] It looks like there are at least a couple verifiable incidents in the U.S. in which a priest and/or his assistants were dressed as clowns for mass, but that doesn't make a "clown mass" practice so much as "masses in which a participant was dressed as a clown." Even if we considered the priests the subjects here (though the article seems more intent on attacking a heretical "practice"), the "most well known" recent priest/clown that the article mentions is apparently not that well known at all.[2] Perhaps if we really dug around we could construct a list of unusual mass costumes, simply given the sheer number of priests around the world and the number of ways in which they could express their own individual approach to the faith or simply try a gimmick to draw attention to the parish. Postdlf 05:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete NN. Dionyseus 05:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom-pretty weird, actually Michael 06:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Delete. "A Clown Mass is typically viewed as an illicit celebration of Mass...the antics are often seen as detracting from the sanctity of the celebration, and it is likely the celebrant commits a sin by celebrating it." Woah! Definitely a POV candidate for cleanup, at best. Google lists 316 unique hits (not counting Wikipedia pages). It's a known topic, but not well known. -- H·G (^words/_works) 07:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. From doing a quick Google search, I can't see more than a few instances where anyone has performed a Clown Mass, besides the incident from 2002 that apparently got this article started. (Also, the picture appears to be a copyvio from the same page, despite the assertion that it can be licensed under the GFDL.) --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 13:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I've tagged the image as having no copyright license; the uploader had no basis for asserting GFDL. Also, the uploader's image description really explains the agenda of this article: "It is important that Catholics be made aware of such illicit practices..." Postdlf 15:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Yes, it's pretty darn weird. Davidpdx 19:38, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
  • You think this is weird? You should see the other AFD I posted recently... Postdlf 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Reads like an urban legend and follows the pattern with alarmist tone and no verifiable sources. --Xrblsnggt 02:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Could this be moved to a Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense page? It might not be encyclopedic but it did make me chuckle:-) mikemoto 00:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Be my guest.  : ) Just keep in mind that the image is probably a copyvio, so just move the text. Postdlf 00:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. —Hanuman Das 01:11, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Article has a distinct POV slant that needs to be cleaned up but there is apparently some "controversy" in this, especially among conservative Catholics. That controversy is notable. I know blogs are not good sources but here are a few things that give a sense of the apparent controversy.

This Catholic Blog Nov 18, 2002 has info about a Papal mass where apparently a "clown" led part of it.

This Blog references an article from Fidelity Monthly, a Catholic Magazine and includes the follow dictionary reference and additional source CLOWN MASS: Liturgical innovation comparable to the innovation of Gregorian chant; relevant: “A clown liturgy may sound sacrilegious but those who attended a special Mass at St. Agnes Church described it as moving, uplifting, spirited and colorful” (Catholic Herald, Milwaukee, February 16, 1984).

This blog complains about an Episcopalian Clown Mass

This site uses the "Clown Mass" as an example of what is wrong with Vatican II

And finally, an Episcopal web news mag has an article about the NYC Clown Mass Agne27 03:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.