Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chiricheppu

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete - Discounting the socks, etc, we have Doctorbruno arguing for retention and another on the basis "it exists" which was refuted by Kinu. Furthermore, our Kerala Wikipedians, in particular the investigation of Tintin leave me to delete, without any doubt.Blnguyen | rant-line 01:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chiricheppu

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This appears to be unverifiable. Verify tag was removed by anon. Created by User:Cartoonist jithesh who appears to be the eminent cartoonist-cum-writer referred to in the article.

  • Delete as per my nom. Dlyons493 Talk 02:22, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment AfD tag removed by a new editor - thanks for restoring it. Dlyons493 Talk 08:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - Pure vanity. The magazine and its author S. Jithesh are non notable. -- thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK09:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete for lack of reliable sources indicating any sort of notability; doesn't seem to meet WP:BK. --Kinu t/c 21:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Dont Delete - what is the ground for your suggestion for deletion of an article about the cartoon magazine. chiricheppu is the one and only Political Cartoon Magazine in malayalam.why you are fighting against cartoons and cartoon magazines.we wikipedians are consider that you and your friends are acting as the tools of some nasty politicians who are totally against Chiricheppu .I think this magazine is working as a terminator which destroying anti-social elements in the society.Afer Asadhu and Sarasan magazines Chiricheppu is blooming laughter in the minds of malayalam readers. malicious intention to defame a magazine surely comes under the provisions of cyber crime.search for the details of judgement of keralas firstly filed cyber crime in pathanamthita district court. --Adv. sreekumar, High Court, kochi
— Possible single purpose account: Adv sreekumar (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.. Luna Santin 05:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Dont Delete -I love walking in the rain Because nobody can see me crying....Chaplin .Did this word touched any heart?Every smile has a story of tears behind... .We the loving readers of chiricheppu tries to realise this truth. go ahead ......No one can delete you from the minds of readers.why people are becoming so much monster-eyed sadistic . why we have to put off the streamig lights of virtue.remember friends....it is very easy to desroy.but creaion is devine and difficult

Nileena joseph,a great fan of poetry and cartoons

  • Delete. I'm still not seeing any demonstrated notability; there are some claims, but I'm not sure if it's backed up. A scant 65 ghits [1], the top result of which is en.wikipedia, and several of the upper results appear irrelevant to this context; zero hits at gnews [2]. This just doesn't seem to have a very big footprint, to me; sorry folks. This isn't a commentary on the comic, I'm sure it's great and I hope you enjoy it, it's just that we don't really have room to write out an article on every comic ever written -- there has to be a line, somewhere, and I'm not yet convinced that Chiricheppu has passed that line. If you'd like to try and change my mind, it would be wise to link to various websites which will support your points. Thanks for your time, everybody, and have a good one. Luna Santin 13:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment - Please note that Google do not have reports about Non-English entities. Also most of the Indian media and personalities are not covered by English Media and not covered by GoogleDoctor Bruno 03:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
If it's not mentioned on any English pages, it'll be pretty difficult to find reliable sourcing. Luna Santin 05:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as per Luna Santin. There are no sources where this could be verified.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING(Я) 20:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete in this form and if verifiability is not fully achieved after this discussion ends totally non-notable and non verifiable. The so called advocate from high court who has supported this seems to have no knowledge on wiki norms and seems to be a sock puppet. Also the remark on political interference is a general sickness of all malayalees. Whenever something happens which we do not like in kerala, we blame it on politics and the "hidden political hand". So these arguments are very stupid. Wiki cannot be controlled by such sick thoughts. Also the argument on "malicious intentions to defame" is silly as the magazine as such has no repute in the first place! Here all wikians have a right to defend what we feel and this does not paramount to any malicious intentions to defame and is outside the purview of any court.Since the editor of this magazine himself put this article here there is no case of "malicious intention to defame" as nothing objectionable has been published against him or the magazine here on wiki. I doubt this Sreekumar is an advocate. If he was he would not have made such foolish threats. Let him make such observations in the court. This is cyber space not a court! If he is so passionate on what he reads let him provide verifiable proof on the claims that it has 50000 circulation and such. This magazine does not have any state or national repute. It is just one of those yellow journalism magazines. Wiki is no place for such magazines. There are thousands of such magazines in Kerala. If all the editors of such magazines start to adverise their own names and their magazines on wiki we all would have to hang our faces in shame. Request to the advocate to come up with more solid material on web for supporting his claims. I will surely rethink my opinion if this article is well supported by the end of this discussion, instead of silly hollow claims. If you are an advocate prove it by doing some research and work on collecting evidence. See how the artcle on Pradip Somasundaran was retained after the discussion gave way to the much needed evidence.Take this for encouragement. GlueWhale 02:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete - non notable Doctor Bruno 03:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC) Changing to Keep - I spoke to few guys in AIMS and they know the magazine and the cartoonist very well.Doctor Bruno 10:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC) See below for the changed vote

'Don't delete'.....because the cartoon lovers accepted the magazine as their pulse to gag the society. Chiricheppu stands as a good social worker to keep every malayalam readers in smile. We are using it as a panacea for every tensions. We don't forget their endievour and contributions in the field malayalam publications. So my suggession is that do not cancel the grate canvas of our cartoonist and the laughing canvas of over mind. Rajkumar Kuruppu59.93.8.209 10:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment: From the above comment, one would think that those recommending deletion are trying to get rid of the cartoon itself instead of the article. At any rate, unfortunately, without any sort of verifiability as to the claims in the article, it cannot stand. I suggest spending more trying looking for sources indicating any sort of notability, rather than trying to sway us with anecdotal generalizations as to how great the cartoon itself is. --Kinu t/c 14:53, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete -- if it was notable, it would appear in at least one newspaper report which should be googleable. Id it is in Malayalam, I'm sure our editors conversant in Malayalam can track it down online. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:46, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment - According to the Official Government of India website [3] this is a magazine published from Adoor. Hence that settles the verifiability part. The only question that remains is Notability.Doctor Bruno 16:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for that - the magazine does exist, which is a big step forward. That site also has a section for publishers claimed circulation but Chiricheppu doesn't seem to make any claims for itself. All the above established Indian editors seem agreed that it is non-notable so, unless some reliable sources can demonstrate notability, I'll leave the AfD nomination stand. I'll be happy to withdraw it if even a relatively weak demonstration of notability can be made. Dlyons493 Talk 17:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment- Dlyons, that it has been listed as a magazine is not the issue. Any indian magazine has to be registered with "Registrar of Newspapers" for official recognition and legality for publication in India. There are thousands of such magazines. So this finding is not big game. Even I have seen and read the magazine and have liked it! "Crime magazine" a yellow magazine is more notable than "Chiricheppu". So will we all support an article by its Propreitor tomorrow on Wiki? Wiki is not a place for self publicity and praise. It's also not a place for free publicity. There are norms here. We all should entertian articles only on wiki norms. There is no place for sympathy or it being good for health or society. Wiki works only on facts not on personal emotions. This is an Online Encyclopedia. Not a Malayalam Daily for putting ads! Do not forget this. GlueWhale 17:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete per Kinu: lack of reliable sources indicating notability. -AED 20:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment Can someone search for Audit Bureau of Circulation India's figures for this magazine. There is no stats on the web. Someone may have to physically search it . i.e. that is if someone has the report, please publish the figures for it over here. If it is selling more than 50,000 copies, then keep it, otherwise nuke it. I must add, when I was in Kerala, most children bought Balarama magazine, which must be the largest selling cartoon weekly in Kerala. --Ageo020 22:15, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to add that Adv. Sreekumar maybe User:Cartoonist jithesh. This link [4] which shows that the cartoonist S. Jithesh is addressed as Advocate in his home page and also his email shows this. The S in his name could stand for Sreekumar. --Ageo020 22:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Delete Very non-notable. I actually went and checked a few small book stalls in Ernakulam over the weekend to see what it looks like but couldn't find any. These sort of magazines usually sell mostly in bus and railway stations where the travellers pick them up for reading during the journey. I can tell you that as of 1.30 pm last Sunday, the book shop in the Ernakulam busstand had Hasyakairali and three editions Bobanum Moliyum among comedy magazines, but it had no Chiricheppu ! If it does not sell in the main bus stand in the largest city in Kerala I am surprised that it sells any, let alone 50000, copies. There is also a possibility that it had sold out everywhere, but that is a little far-fetched. Tintin (talk) 04:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

    • Do not delete. it is crystal-clear that someone who have vested interest who are trying to attack and defame this cartoon magazine.all the people who have good reading habits know this magazine.balrama comes under the category of childrens magazine. not under the category of cartoon magazine.someone who commented here that chiricheppu is a yellow magazine.what a stupid comment.most of the commented person are introduced themselves as people from other countries such as ireland ,australia.someone are forcing them to comment on this people. how the people from other countries can judge a magazine in malayalam.we -the kerala people is familiar with this magazine.chiricheppu is the unique political cartoon monthly in malayalam language.someone thinks that defamation is not a crime in cyber space.calling a cartoon magazine "yellow magazine" is highly defamatory.the cyber crimes in the country were booked under the Indian Penal Code,(sec499and500) rather than the Information Technology Act. computers were used to commit acts of crimes such as defamation is punishable both under indian cyber law and indian penal code.any person has the right to edit wikipedia.but no one has the right to spread defamation against a reputed magazine.the aim of wikipedia is great.one who is doing research on the history of cartooning it is really worthy to read the article published about Chiricheppu in wikipedia.how many political cartoon magazines are now available in malayalam...? please tell me friends...!Only Chiricheppu.that is why we the readers of chiricheppu is against deletion.any type of imputations published will hurt thousands of readers of chiricheppu.recent defamation case on cyber space is also cited hereunder:Fighting cyber crimes

Conviction in a cyber case in Pathanamthitta recently has increased the confidence of the public to file more such cases, writes Anand Haridas(The Hindu news paper reports)

After a couple of arrests of foreign nationals on charges of spreading defamatory matters, more people are coming forward to file complaints, say city police officials.another case: TRIVANDRUM - The Kerala police have made a mark in dealing with cyber crimes with the arrest of a 45-year-old former pastor and his son in a case related to the alleged defamating the chief of the Indian Pentecostal Church T.S. Abraham by using the new technology. The former pastor, T.S. Balakrishnan Nair alias T.S. Balan, who was associated with the Sharon Pentecostal Church, was arrested from his residence at Perumbavoor by the Pathanamthitta Police for spreading defamatory matters about Mr Abraham and his family members, including his daughter, through cyberspace.recently both the accused were punished for an imprisonment of 7years.


Babupaul

— Possible single purpose account: Babupaul (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.. Luna Santin 05:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: What does any of this have to do with WP:V, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR? By the way, Wikipedia is not here for the people of Kerala, it's for everyone. And I'd cool it with the legal threats; it's doubtful that it's going to accomplish anything except getting you blocked. --Kinu t/c 04:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

DONT Delete.The vested interestsmhas been doing some foul play for deleting the contents.They should be banned from these henious work against a noble magazine.The notability and the reach of a magazine is measured through the popularity & its circulation,the credibility of the editor & management and its stand in social issues.in all these repects chiricheppu is at par with any magazine in india.Among the cartoon magazines, its a boon to cartoonists and readers comprising different tastes and intellect.whether the entertaintment part or the social cause,they have done their job magnificiantly.its the requiremnet of the generation that more people speaking different languages and lives across the globe be aquainted with this flag bearers of humanity.the reach & notability of the magazine is evident from the support its getting from the notable personalities and readers in this issueFundoomal 04:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

— Possible single purpose account: Fundoomal (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.. Luna Santin 05:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Sure, a widely circulated and critically acclaimed magazine would probably be notable. But that's exactly the thing -- I haven't yet seen any evidence that this magazine is either of those things. Your claims would be far more convincing if you backed them up with links to reliable websites; please take a few moments to do so. Thanks. Luna Santin 05:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't DeleteFrom the interest only particular users of wi-kipeadia for the deletion of the article its evident they have personal interest in deletion.i have been to ernakulam and from the railway station i bought chiricheppu.if my dear frnd tintin din't get it from there that means all the copies were sold out .guys why you want to delete this genuine article.

Comment That any fool can edit wikipedia is just a wish. The wikipedian admins are experieced people who constantly monitor it's content and they have all rights to decide on what is right, and what is wrong. It cannot be decided by some ignorant guys who pose themselves as IAS officers sometimes, and as Advocates some other times. It's a shame to the official community that those who are holding high positions do not even know how to write good english! So stop playing games here. Even if you put hundreds of comments here under different names, you will be still be caught red handed by the poor quality of your english! Please spend this valuable time in trying to improve your writing skills, and finding proof for it's notability instead of foolish legal threats. These threats will not hold as it's not in your right to put any stupid article here. Wiki has norms and will work only on norms not emotions. Regarding defamation, it's you who put this article here in the first place and now you are threatining those who oppose it's inclusion! Opposition does not amount to defamation. No one has said that your magazine does not exist or is not a cartoon magazine. There are thousands of such magazines in the "petti peedikas" all across Kerala which are bought by the layman, just to kill time. These do not contribute to any new knowledge of the reader. If you want real quality, read and see R.K Laxman's works. Where is he, and where is S.Jithesh of Chiricheppu! In Kerala there are only a few cartoon magazines. "Hasyakairali" is a better cartoon magazine than Chiricheppu. In the begenning Chiricheppu started off with much fanfare using inputs from the literary world. But now the state of this magazine is really alarming with most of Jithesh's cartoons not up to the mark. So the claim of 50,000 copies is not true. Support your claims, instead of resorting to lame threats and sock puppetry. I am from Kerala and so your allegation that all those who oppose this article live abroad is totally baseless. GlueWhale 07:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment about In the begenning Chiricheppu started off with much fanfare using inputs from the literary world. But now the state of this magazine is really alarming - So you knew the existence of this magazine and perhaps have read that ??!! Interesting !! If so then that settles the debate. The magazine as well as the Cartoonist are perhaps notable, at least for the cartoons not up to the mark Doctor Bruno 09:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Where did he say that it did not exist ? Please read his comments with the timestamp "17:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)". Tintin (talk) 09:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong keep Please don't make it a personal issue. The following words totally non-notable and non verifiable made one assume that there is no magazine at all or that the user has not heard about that (may be I was mistaken in assuming like that) but at the present scenario it is very clear is
  1. There is a magazine called Chiricheppu, published every month in Kerala
  2. There is a person called Jithesh who draws cartoons in that magazine
  3. One of the independent editors of Wikipedia (not a single purpose account) has read for a long time that he has noticed that In the begenning Chiricheppu started off with much fanfare using inputs from the literary world and now the state of this magazine is really alarming with most of Jithesh's cartoons not up to the mark
That settles the notability issue at least to me. As far as I know there are no fixed criteria (like circulation of 1 lakh - readership of 50 lakh etc) for including an article about a magazine in Wikipedia. Hence, we have to follow the dictum of If in doubt, keep and hence I am changing my vote to Strong Keep Also it is very clear that this magazine is non-notable in Uganda, Canada and Sikkim. What is the logic behind deleting an article about a malayalam magazine telling that it is not notable among Mr.Singh, Mr.Adolf and Mr.Hamaguchi. We should only see whether it is notable among Thomas, Varghese and Nair, it does not matter whether the standard was "once good" and "now bad" Notability does not differentiate between notable yesterday and notable today. Please note that I have not seen or read the magazine (I don't know Malayalam) but I am giving my opinion based on the opinion given by one user from Kerala Doctor Bruno 10:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it is also not notable among Tintin, Deepujoseph, GlueWhale, Ageo020 and Raghu, who are all from Kerala. This article has not received support from a single editor from Kerala (excluding the "new" guys) who commented on this. Tintin (talk) 10:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Even I have not seen that magazine so far. What I am telling is that just because I have not seen something or because I don't know about that, it is not that it is non-notable (Sorry if there are too many 'not' - the message is just to lighten up the mood)Doctor Bruno 11:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Dr. Bruno, you are trying to slam my mouth down with wild imaginative meanings that you cooked up from my words. I have never said that I used to read this magazine regularly. Do not force words into my throat. Have you read this magazine? No. Then do not decide for others on whether this is notable or not. There are thousand of such magazines in Kerala, that I may have seen or read once in a while. This does not mean that all of them are notable. I have seen lot of "yellow magazines" on railway platforms and bus stands. Just because I have seen them, know the names and know about them does not make them notable. Most of them may be trash. Are you saying that we ought to host articles on every comic book, children magazine, cartoon magazine and trash from Kerala just because they exist? This is not what Wiki is for. So let malayalees in kerala decide on what is notable and what is not in their state. One who has not even seen it cannot decide on our behalf my friend. Let them come up with solid proof. Let some leading news paper comment on the "fighting for justice" aspect. Has this magazine received any awards? Has the cartoonist of this magazine received one? Well none of the protagonists(prtagonist) above are giving any proof except blindly stating that "do not delete". Lets decide this issue based on the out come of solid proof. Not just because it just exists. Mere existance is not a stamp of notability. Am not personally against this magazine or the cartoonist. Let's just follow Wiki norms. Personal opinions do not count. We have a job to do. If they come up with relevant information including citations keep it or else not. That's all. By the way the usage "vested interests" has now become stale. Every fool in Kerala who is not happy with his own state of affairs blames it on "vested interests". That's the root cause of all stagnation in Kerala. It's a lame and lazy excuse for your own shortcomings. We do not try to find what's wrong with ourselves. We blame it on others! GlueWhale 11:58, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey Cool down..... I am also not personally for this magazine. Just giving my view. I have clearly said that I have not read or seen this magazine. Please don't misunderstand me. And I fully support your view that let malayalees in kerala decide on what is notable and what is not in their state If you can see this is what I meant when I had alread said only see whether it is notable among Thomas, Varghese and Nair. This is a policy (notability decided by persons from that field only) which I would like to be on Wikipedia. But I am a little amused and curious when this advice (Then do not decide for others on whether this is notable or not) is said ONLY at me and not for others who might have never visited Kerala but has voted for deleting this article for the past few days. So if I am voting for delete, I can be any where, but if I am voting for keep, I should be a malayalee in kerala.... Is it like this.... Doctor Bruno 12:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
And you idea of writing an article for "Crime" definitely seems to be a good Idea. When we already have articles on Playboy and Debonair (magazine) why not one on "Crime" :) Doctor Bruno 12:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Sure Doctor, let me buy the latest version of the same and then improve my writing skills; and when I feel that I have achieved the writing abilities of the Editor of that magazine, I will give it a try! Be surely there to support my article when it comes up for deletion like this one here:-) Am cool Dr....be calm...And Thomas & Varghese belong to the same community of Christians....got it wrong on this one. Not like Dick & Hary Dr. :-) The advice was not meant only for you, was a general remark. Also I would never comment on something which I was ignorant of. GlueWhale 18:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

    • Comment This page is a discussion and a place of debate. Calling a magazine a 'Yellow Magazine', hence is a person's opinion. This cannot be prosecuted under Defamation or Slander laws. Please do not threaten other users using any section of IPC. Also, please do not make passionate comments like S.Jithesh is a great cartoonist or Chiricheppu is the light of all Malayalees. Such comments do not hit the nail on the head and will serve no purpose in this AFD. If you want this article to be kept, please give us the facts. I understand that google cannot search malayalam pages, so if you can give us any newspaer articles in malayalam which shows any relevance for Chiricheppu, it will be appreciated.

This comment is intended for the supporters (single purpose account) of Chiricheppu --Ageo020 23:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Commenthai! here is the evidential fact which you asked for, to quench your doubt about 'chiricheppu'..see the famous article named "jeevitham enne enthu padippichu" of SAMAKALINA MALAYALAM (Weekly owned by INDIAN EXPRESS) published on 15 october 2005 and I think it is suffice to appease your dubious attitude against CHIRICHEPPU and I strongly suggest you to restrain from the delibrate enimical attitude against the Chiricheppu. Geethu das.
    Can you please scan the page and upload it for every one to seeDoctor Bruno 14:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Keep Magazine appears to exist, while this piece may need editing for NPOV, I see no reason for it to be removed James68 15:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Mere existence is not a criterion for inclusion, per interpretation of WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. --Kinu t/c 20:15, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Even after repeated pleas Dr. Bruno, James,...seems all the chiricheepu supportes have vanished after the IP bans, proving the single account theories. Even otherwise no one has yet bothered to produce any substantial evidence other than just making passionate claims and threats. No more activity here folks. Better decide on whether to keep or delete. GlueWhale 11:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

DONT DELETE--- Thank you wikipedians for giving more information about chiricheppu.am a research student.my subject is history of cartoon magazines in malayalam and history of cartooning in kerala.the information on chiricheppu was very useful to me.expect more on this magazine and other cartoon magazines in kerala.if you can publish i have the statitics and details of the cartoon magazines in kerala.Sunith chandran 10:25, 19 August 2006 (UTC)User's first contribution. Welcome to Wikipedia!

DONT DELETE---CHIRICHEPPU- The humourous leading monthly in Malayalam plays a wonderful role in the history of malayalam journalism. It has developed a unique style of constructive criticism on social, political and cultural issues with brave,bold and brivity.This magazine is available in almost all leading libraries,press clubs, educational institutions and book stalls.With my long experience as an editor and cartoonist in leading news papers and journals, I strongly recommend the name of CHIRICHEPPU should not be deleated. Dr.MADHU OMALLOOR (Editor-in-Chief & Cartoonist- WITNESS, The Analytical English Magazine of India, Thiruvananthapuram-6)User's first contribution. Welcome to Wikipedia!


No use in only having the statistics. Please show to usDoctor Bruno 16:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
And, a request to all NEW Users. The words you have to use is "Keep" or "Strong Keep" and not "Don't delete"Doctor Bruno 23:22, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment Dr. bruno, your plea for evidence seem to be falling on deaf ears. The same person seems to be commenting under different names as is clear from the bad english usage. See the "Editor in Chief" of "The Analytical English magazine of India" who gave his valuable time to comment here, and see the standard of English he uses here! I would definitely fire such Editors, if I were the owner of the magazine! I think it's due time to take a decision. We are not going to get any evidence and nor are we going to have genuine users giving their opinions.

GlueWhale 17:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Article is a POV and contain almost no usefull information. Subj itself non notable. TestPilot 23:14, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.