Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chibi

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, with no consensus to merge. Any further merge discussions which try to develop a consensus can be done editorially. Daniel 09:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chibi

Chibi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested prod, the article is pure original research and no there are no indications that this is how the term is actually defined. --Farix (Talk) 19:20, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletions. —Farix (Talk) 19:24, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep I don't see how this is original research, considering it is a Japanese word that means "shorty" and I have heard it applied before to anime children characters. The article is couth and well-written, though it could use more sources to make it sound less like as anime junkie talking. --David Andréas 19:38, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete The only accurate section is the brief sidebar on the word's useage in Japanese. Even if a few Western otaku use the word in this sense, they're using it wrong. Doceirias 19:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment That sidebar appears to have been removed. Fg2 01:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong keep impoartant concept in anime and manga, referring to more stylised, "cuter" versions of characters that appear even in "serious" works for purposes of exposition or comic relief. Does look like it could stand a little cleanup, but it's far from unsalvagable. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I removed all the neologisms from that article Corpx 19:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Marginal Keep a quick search [1] of Amazon gets me several books that reference drawing in Chibi style. As such, I am comfortable with accepting that this concept is capable of being appropriately sourced. So tag for clean-up. FrozenPurpleCube 20:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Merge should be major section in Cuteness in Japanese culture. Article needs more references, but it should be cleaned up and merged, not deleted. tdmg 20:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep or merge sources shouldn't be to hard to find. -- Ned Scott 20:52, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - Needs sourcing, and is already tagged for cleanup, but is a commonly used term with a history that takes it beyond just dicdef. ◄Zahakiel► 21:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per Starblind. --ざくら木 23:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. User:Corpx cleaned up the article some but it still needs more work. Chibi is a very popular term in anime, and this page definitely has the potential to be more than just a dicdef. Ten Pound Hammer • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 23:56, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. How is this a "very popular" term in anime? Do you mean when it's mistranslated as cute and assumed to mean the same thing as super deformed? There are three references to valid Chibi characters on that page, and those aren't the definition from that page. The definition on the page is the definition of a confused fanbase and it only leads to more confusion. Delete, redirect to super deformed and make a reference to the common mistranslation on super deformed. JohnnyMrNinja 08:24, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Change to Merge any useful information to super deformed, which is basically the same as delete. JohnnyMrNinja 06:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with super deformed. Wikipedia should cover it, but with the article in its current state, I cannot foresee an article on chibi right now. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge relevant material to super deformed, then redirect to the same. Most of the article is bunk as it stands right now. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 09:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Can I point out to anyone still confused that the term they thinking of when they are talking about anime and manga is super deformed. Chibi is an English fanfiction usage based on someone's mistranslation. This deletion proposal was started by this conversation, which I started because I was mislead by the misinformation in the Chibi article, and just wanted to close out the merger proposal. JohnnyMrNinja 09:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Definitely want to agree with this. The correct term is super deformed; chibi should redirect to that term. A sidebar on how some fans use the word wrong might be worth adding, but an entire article on a mistake just serves to prolong the confusion. Doceirias 09:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge relevant material to super deformed. I'm not fully clear on the differences between these two, but if there are any, it might be best explained within the context of a single article. LordAmeth 10:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to super deformed. I fail to see the difference between the two - I read through the talk pages on both articles, and while there are some vague pointers, few really go beyond "OMG their different and if u can't see that u suck lol". If someone makes a crystal clear description of the differences between the two (i.e. one that will be understandable to interested but fairly manga/anime ignorant bystanders, such as myself) then I'm willing to reconsider my vote. Until then, I really see no reason for two articles. TomorrowTime 14:44, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to super deformed. I was originally going to say delete, since it's not clear why this is notable to begin with. But if there's any usable materials it might as well be put in super deformed. -Amake 15:19, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to Super deformed and redirect It's the correct term. A mention of the use of "chibi" in the article would be enough. Bnynms 21:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep — They are different concepts. Chibi is a widely-used general concept (in Japanese) which usually means "child version", "younger version", "smaller version", or "miniature version" as opposed to it's counterpart, which would be a "full grown" or "regular version". Super deformed is merely a caricature style, which does not necessarily have any counterpart "full grown" or "larger version" as Chibi does.--Endroit 22:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
    Both of your explanations mean the same thing. "A caricature is either a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness, or in literature, a description of a person using exaggeration of some characteristics and oversimplification of others." The definition of caricature means it is based on a "full grown" or "regular version". Here is a caricature of Gustave Eiffel, but that is not what he really looked like. You might call this Chibi Eiffel. JohnnyMrNinja 23:35, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
    No, a caricature would tend to describe a permanently dwarfed version (never grows in size), whereas a chibi tends to be an immature person/child which will grow up in due time. There is a clear difference. Besides, Super deformed is a style of drawing, and does NOT describe personal characteristics like Chibi does.--Endroit 04:24, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
    Ok, I see what you're going for here, but I don't think that's what most people are believing chibi means. As far as widely-used, I can only believe that is true when referring to fan-fiction and fan-art. In actual Japanese media there are not that many characters that are literally younger versions of themselves at any given time (save maybe chibiusa or chibichibi). But this is not what our Wiki page says. In general the article is very inconsistent and claims to have a lot of overlap with super deformed. Also, a Google definition search basically says chibi is used the same as super deformed.[2][3] The Anime News Network does not appear to have a chibi entry, but mentions it on super deformed, noting "(also called "Big Head", SD Mode, CB or Chibi Body or Chibis for the plural)".[4] Remember that eventually these articles have to sourced, and as it is, the sources point to merger. JohnnyMrNinja 06:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
    It is an unfortunate fact that Wikipedia's Chibi article has had a bogus and unsourced definition, until I fixed it today. In real life, Chibi is a word of Japanese origin with a specific meaning in Japanese, which I will supply a definitive source for shortly. (No, it does NOT mean super deformed). We all agree that the word Chibi is used primarily in manga and anime. Unless one of you can provide a definitive source declaring that the meaning of the word Chibi has shifted in the English language, the original Japanese definition I will supply shall take precedence. Please don't use Wikipedia to redefine the word Chibi without any authoritative sources. Thank you.--Endroit 08:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
A simple of of looking at the difference: An SD is proportioned, usually with a head the size of the rest of the body. Look at something like Pocket Fighter for instance. Chibi refers to smaller/younger, but /still normal proportions/. A flashback to where the main character is 5 years old would show the "chibi" version of the character (a good example is in the Ranma 1/2 manga, where Ranma and Ryoga eat age regressing mushrooms. Their bodies revert to five year olds, yet they still look normal within the context of the drawing style). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per Starblind. Notable drawing style, and a concept which can be gound in books about manga. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with Super deformed. Chibi and Super-Deformed are basically used --StalkerAT 14:44, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and Merge Super deformed into Chibi, as in my experience, Chibi is the more common term than Super Deformed (3,000,000 google hits on Chibi versus 209,000 for "Super Deformed" in quotes).—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuronue (talk • contribs) 15:29, 9 July 2007
  • Merge to Super deformed: Chibi is a type of super deformed drawing. Specifically, one where features are all reduced to a child-like form. A non-chibi super deformed example would be the classic huge, bulging eyes cartoon characters used to get when surprised (I'm pretty should I can find a cite of the term used in this specific regard). However, since chibi not a big enough departure from normal "super deformation", it should just be a section in the super deformed article.--SeizureDog 23:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and differentiate from super deformed per Endriot, based on the corresponding Japanese wiki article. However, if merged to Super deformed, do not redirect but make an disambiguation page instead. _dk 02:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as above.MightyAtom 04:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I want to express that from my knowledge as well Super deformed != Chibi, although I don't 100% agree with how the Chibi article defines Chibi, it's still mostly accurate. I considered chibi to just be another Japanese word (typically insulting) of the same notability of "Boya" or "Baka". Wikipedia probably isn't in the general business of making articles for every Japanese word, but if someone wanted to make the case that it's significant in a larger sense to be able to understand the cultural impact of some Japanese media, I would give it to them. But then again, I don't see an article for "Baka" right now, which is troubling for the existence of this article. Still on the basis of WP:ALLORNOTHING, I would have to say that my decision would be a fairly week keep.
  • Keep per Endroit. Article may lack clean-up, but I think that "chibi" and "super deformed" are not equal. Chibi is the general terms to characters drawn temporarily in a comical, cute way, with changed emotions or exaggerated feelings, whereas super deformed is a more general term describing any character with a specific caricature-like apperance, and without personality traits. Like signs and ads in most Japanese cities. --Rev-san 13:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep I'm not enough of an authority to parse the definitions, but there is a definite difference between "chibi" and "super deformed." I think the major confusion here is that it is common practice to draw characters that fit *both* styles. Many early 20th century art pieces qualify as both "dada" and "surrealism," but that doesn't mean that the topics should be merged. I would like to see an editor try and describe the differences between those two art styles in one clean sentence. Similar concept here with "chibi" and "super deformed." Fishamaphone 19:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.