Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Gauci

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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. – Rich Farmbrough 14:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Gauci

Delete or reduce drastically the content. Who is this man? Is he worth an entry in wikipedia. What is the last line in the article? The article proofs to be very long, yet the encyclopeadic content is very limited.. the content is a series of dates and events which are irrelevant to the Wikipedian concept. Maltesedog 19:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom. Molotov (talk) 22:44, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. There seems to be a reasonably notable man named Charles Gauci, a stage magician, but this article isn't about him. 68.20.28.234 02:57, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep Maltesedog you really show how silly you are. If you go to the history books at the University you will find a number of books written by Dr Charles A Gauci. Also before you get crafty MAKE sense. You want to delete but also say reduce. Make your mind up!!! Here are some links of who this person is. [1];[2]; [3]; [4]. It seems the Maltese Government knows who he is. Lastly if you do happen to have a copy of the Maltese Coats of Arms, guess who its been written by? You guess it, none other then the person you want deleted.Tancarville 15.00 15th September 2005 (EST)
    • You have a strong interest in keeping articles concerning Maltese Nobility online, even though they are of no importance whatsoever. I look forward to the view of others concerning deletion of this article, whose encyclopeadic content is barerly none, since the article only contains figures and date. Tancerville, please stop accusing me personally.Maltesedog 06:06, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I do have a strong sense of the Nobility as if you refer to your deletion to the Maltese Nobility, there is an essence of recording history. Dr CA Gauci biobraphy does need to be cleaned up especially with those titles, but I dont agree his biography should be deleted at all.In future you should place a cleanup tag and note reasons for the clean up, then make communications with its author, and if its not to the satisfaction of Wikipedia, then proceed to deletion. I find this very unfair that you simply strike something rightaway to deletion when this biography was simply published only a week ago. Be fair and give others a chance. .Tancarville 08.49 16th September 2005 (EST)
        • Given the size of Malta and the number of Maltese nobles, having an article for every Maltese noble in Wikipedia would be like having an article for every city councilman for every medium size city in the world, and the Maltese nobles don't even have any real power. None of the accomplishments listed in any of the links provided above strike me as notable. At most, authoring a directory about Maltese nobles merits linking to his website from an article about the Maltese nobility and including his name in the description of the link. Caerwine 05:07, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep My my my, Maltese Dog, you are such an important fellow! Whether you keep me on Wikipedia or not is of no real consequence; for your information, I am a Senior Consultant in chronic pain management based in London with two textbooks to my name (the latest is being translated into Spanish, Korean & Japanese), I am a Member of the Board of Directors of the World Institute of Pain, a member of the Board of Examiners for the FIPP Diploma, an author of many medical papers, an international lecturer on chronic pain (Europe, Asia, USA & South America) and also happen to be a visiting consultant in Pain Management to St. Luk'es Hospital in Malta. Have written several books on Maltese Genealogy and Heraldry which have become the standard reference works. I'm sure you can think of many other people who have achieved more than me; maybe one day you will too; until that time, learn some manners, this will serve you well when you graduate.Dr CA Gauci MD...(ps I'm not the magician!)
  • Delete Holding a non-exclusive title of nobility from an extinct state that possesse no de jure power deriving from that title is not enough to warrant being notable and I don't see anything other than that in this lengthy article that is a claim to notability. Caerwine 11:39, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Is having a noble title sufficient to have an article in Wikipedia? If no delete Maltesedog 17:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Refer to the deletion of Maltese nobility. Do you read anything and understand any comments made by others in previous attemps for deletion??Tancarville 08.49 16th September 2005 (EST)
      • Maltesedog you should really take note of comments made in the deletion of the Maltese Nobility. You are unjust with your comments and most importantly if you even look at the who's who in Malta you will find me there. Over time you shall locate just about everyone in the who's who of Malta in Wikipedia.Dr CA Gauci MD 09.49 16th September 2005 (EST)
    • Comment (Hopefully my last) I see three claims to notability that Dr. Gauci and his supporters are making
  1. He is a Maltese noble. Problem: Simply having a noble title is not sufficient to make someone notable.
  2. He is the leading expert on Maltese nobles. Problem: The number of people interested in Maltese nobles (at least in an English encyclopedia) is almost certainly below the 5000 person threshold to make that notable enough for Wikipedia. Probably would be enough to justify an article on the Maltese Wiktionary, but there doesn't seem to be one there. (Which I readilly admit doesn't mean much since there are less than 1,000 articles on the Maltese Wiktionary, but perhaps if the gallant defenders of Maltese nobility would make an effort there would more articles there.)
  3. He is a notable practioner in pain management. Problem: While I can't speak of his second textbook, I can find a great deal more information on the co-author of the first J.R. Wedley (who happens to have first billing on that textbook by the way) than I can on the Dr. Gauci. Unfortunately for Dr. Gauci, what I can find on him indicates that he is not any more notable than an average professor. Now if Dr. Gauci has developed a bold new technique in pain management that has become a standard approach in that field, that would certainly make him notable, but it's not in the article and I haven't found any indication that he has.
In short, I stand by earlier view of this article, that it is a non-notable vanity article and should therefore be deleted. Caerwine 14:43, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi ,

I was searching the site when I came across this articly, and I must say I was quite impressed by it.

How come that this Lt. Colonel Dr Charles A. Gauci, a totally irrelevant person to Malta is featured here? I find it to be a very misleading article as readers who are not familiar with Malta are inevitably induced into believing that he is somehow to be considered important, whilst in fact he can be considered anonymous!

I don't think that this person, whoever he is [with due respect], should be mentioned here, and thus this article should be removed.

Maria P.

  • Hi there Maria., you failed to provide Facts to why Dr Charles Gauci shouldnt be listed here. Charles does come from a very historical and influence Maltese family. His sister (Mrs Zammit Cordina)only just received the Highest Order in Australia for her work in Malta and Charles will soon receive one of the Highest orders by the Republic of Malta for his efforts to Heraldry and Genealogy. Please be sutle and respect those who have achieved. This gentleman does deserve the honour of being listed on wikipedia. If not then we might as well delete all Maltese biographies including former Primeministers. Maria you also failed to provide a User name and also proof of membership. On that account your words are meaningless. Maltesedog has always failed in his attempt to provide FACTS other then a reduction to Dr CA Gauci's biography. .Tancarville 07.00 17th September 2005 (EST)
    • That his sister may be notable, does not make him notable. That his familiy may be notable does not make him notable. That he may receive an award, may make him notable once he has received that award if the award is notable and that fact can be verified. The onus of demonstrating notability is on those claiming that he is notable as if he is notable, that fact should be easy to show. Caerwine 03:42, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Tancarville has created a bunch of troublesome articles on persons who are allegedly Maltese nobility. Against Wikipedia norms he signs the articles, and they are generally taken directly from web pages Tancarville authored. Original research, verifiability suspect, notability unclear. Finally, the article is a dreadful read. If you had been interested in Charles Gauci before, you won't be after trying to read this article. Quale 03:17, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
    • You hit the nail on the head.. that's what i'm trying to say.. !! quale.. I don't know, but the same matter applies to whole list of articles listed in Maltese Nobility. I insist upon deletion. Noone is going to threaten me by calling me stupid or silly. Personal offences are also against the wikipedian policy. Maltesedog 13:13, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I insist upon deletion. Hmmm. Rich Farmbrough 19:03, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
  • If this is a valid title, then keep, but I suggest keep it short. Move the material on the title itself to another article. Rich Farmbrough 19:17, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks for your support Farmbrough., Dr Charles Gauci does have a legitimate noble title, though I do agree that his biography should be shorten. But I dont agree that it should be taken down. I am persistent with this as I am the author who placed this on wikipedia. Many thanks. Tancarville
  • Caerwine said it all. Just because you're noble is not reason for retaining an article. Tancarville, you should understand the scope of wikipedia.
    • Just to be clear on my point of view, I feel that modern nobles, who have no political powers deriving from their status are not by default notable. Charles Gauci is just such a modern noble, and as such the fact that he is modern noble does not make him notable. It doesn't preclude him being notable on other grounds, but none of the other facts presented about him are sufficient to warrant him being called sufficiently notable to have an article of his own in a world-wide English-language comprehensive encyclopedia such as Wikipedia. A brief mention that he is the sole and current holder of a particular noble title would be appropriate in an article about that title, assuming he has such a title. The text of the article makes it sound like his brothers and sons (if any) also qualify to concurrently hold those titles that he does possess. Caerwine 18:24, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
      • I agree with Caerwine that noble Titles are not sufficient for someone to have a biography on wikipedia, though has any one read what Dr Gauci is, other then his noble connection?? He is one of the world specialist in Pain management. Does the annoying User:Maltesedog understand this or is it as silly as the dog is? At the end of the day, common sense should prevail, not studipity because one has a disliking to those who were born with a silver soon. Please view Dr Gauci's biograpghy from the first two paragraphs and comment on that please. With respect Dr Gauci is connected to a title which I am also connected to Vassallo-Paleologo which is extended to all descendants through the male and female lines. This does give those the right to style the title of Count or Countess. HM, Queen Paola of the Belgiums is also a descendant. Importantly, only a small faction really style themselves a title, as there are descendants all over the world and can run into the thousands of living descendants. Tancarville 14.15, 21 September 2005 (EST)
        • I already addressed the other points raised as arguments for Dr. Gauci's notability in my comments of 14:43, 16 September 2005 and 17:51, 20 September 2005 and said why I found them lacking. Caerwine 09:54, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all the folderol that's now in the "Count Gauci" section as of vanity significance only. I'm unenthusiastic about the rest, too. But is this Gauci the junior author of A New Guide to the Birds of Malta (Valletta, 1982)? If so, then he starts to sound interesting. Anyway, he's said to be an expert on pain. Is he an expert on pain? I am not qualified to judge. -- Hoary 04:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC) PS The reek of vanity is overpowering, and the sockpuppets don't help. USERFY, or rather, let Dr CA Gauci MD add as much as he wants to User:Dr CA Gauci MD. Incidentally, I note that all the contributions to Wikipedia by Dr CA Gauci MD are in one way or another directly related to Dr CA Gauci MD. -- Hoary 09:18, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep I have all of Charles Gauci's books and he is a man of talent and genius. I believe he should be kept. Also a renown doctor and specialist in pain relief. Preziosi 04:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Remarkably, this is Preziosi's very first contribution to Wikipedia. -- Hoary 09:06, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Hopefully not my last either. Seems I support User:Tancarville original work and I strongly believe that User:Maltesedog should take a strong look at itself. Very sad day indeed defending other Maltese from Maltese themselves. Incidentally, I am a second cousin to the Count Preziosi which makes me very proud to be connected to the Nobility. Half of the present members of Government in Malta are of noble descent. So good work Dr Gauci. Preziosi 1100, 21 September 2005 (UTC).
        • Half of the presenet members of government are of noble descent. I doubt whether you are living in Malta. Details please. 10:41, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
          • Dear Dog., I do indeed live in Malta, actually I live at Portomaso. Its all nice here in a modern village. I hope you are in refine quarters too. Here is a list of those on both sides of the Government of Malta that are of noble descent.- Abela Anthony; Abela Carmelo; Agius David;Abela Joseph;Arrigo Robert; Brincat Joseph; Azzopardi Frederick; Azzopardi Jason; Deguara Louis; Debono Grech Joseph; Galea Ċensu; Galdes Roderick; Galea Louis; Herrera Jose; Gonzi Lawrence; Parnis Silvio; Gonzi Michael; Refalo Anton; Mifsud Bonnici Antoine; Sammut Joseph M; Mifsud Bonnici Carmelo; Sant Alfred; Vassallo Adrian; Pullicino George; Pullicino Orlando Jeffrey; Vassallo Edwin; I hope you now fully understand (Maltesedog).,Preziosi, 14.00, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Suppose what you said is true, i'm quite sure nobility is not what made them notable.There is no proof. In no electoral description prior to election reference was made to their noble birth. So nobility does not imply being notable. Anyway forget it, I leave the deletion thing up to the administrators and other wikipedians. I look forward from other comments from other wikipedians. Maltesedog 17:42, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Thats true, half of the Politicans in Malta are of noble descent, but are famed for their elected position as politicans. Though Dr CA Gauci is a famed person for his works to pain management and also to their nobility and historical works he has achieved in his life. I also believe he published a book on Birds as well. Maltesecount 19:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment I am told that [User:Maltesedog] was rejected with his application when he presented his lineage to become an Associate member of the Foreign Titles Assocation of Malta because they were self styled and false. Is this really a get back against the Author who is also the Secretary of the Assocation? A personal attack on Gauci and all the Maltese Nobility as a whole?? You certainly have put the Maltese people in general down for a lack of pride. Dr CA Gauci MD, 900 21 September 2005.(UTC)
    • This is stunning news, Dr CA Gauci MD, especially considering that Maltesedog doesn't reveal any other name on his or her user page. Was the FTAM approached by somebody calling him- or herself "Maltesedog", or how do you know his or her name? And you are told this -- by whom? (That is, if you really think this is significant.) -- Hoary 09:06, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment' I never applied to become a member of the Foreign Title Association of Malta. Please proof your statements and do not invent on persons who have nothing to do with the matter just to gain personal advantage. What you stated was a pure lie. Maltesedog 09:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Reply I dont believe that wikipedia would let me place your name here, or you (maltesedog) would use that against me. So to protect myself, I have made a statement but to not inclur an upsetting of the (maltesedog) I shall refuse to comment further. Dr CA Gauci MD 1025. 21 September 2005, (UTC).
    • I don't think you have to worry about the last line or any other part of the article M-dog, as the article is surely doomed -- either to be userfied or to be utterly deleted. -- Hoary 13:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Very mild intimidation - ignore it. Argue solely on the merits of the case. I'm interested in knowing more about these "founts of honour" - they seem worth documenting. Furthermore if titles are legitimate enough for Burkes Peerage, they should probably be on Wikipedia. If not, then there is a good chance we should document the various "founts" of these titles, in order to clarify for users their relative obscurity and unimportance. What, for example is a Hereditary Patrician of Rome & Messina? Is it a title in an disetablished nobility? Or is it a Green Shield stamp title like some Lord of the manor titles? Or is it a bunch of people who have found what they believe is a legitmate way to confer honours on each other? It appears that there are several categories of "Maltese noble". Firstly and secondly those whose title stemmed from the Maltese state/kingdom, living either before or after the titles were disestablished. Thirdly those whose titles are from some other court. The number recognised by the state as legitmate forms for "social use" seems small enough to document exhaustively, the last group is less certain, and may not be bounded, depending on the answers to other questions psed earlier. Rich Farmbrough 15:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

It's sad to see that a simple discussion and exchange of opinions has turned into a barrage of personal attacks of the base kind. You would expect a little good taste from such 'notable' and 'reputable' figures. All this 'mud-throwing' going on in here in an attempt to dirty the other side's reputation and make him seem less credible is really childish. Unfortunately, those in favour of the article seem to have picked on Maltesedog and haven't really answered the comments of the other Wikipedians who are opposing the article. But I digress. The article, IMHO, should be deleted for all the reasons stated by Caerwine. Being mentioned on a website or publishing a study doesn't make you notable; and neither having a title with no particular significance. We've got renowned specialists as well in Malta apart from Dr. Gauci. But are they notable? Of course not. Maybe if they took part in some ground-breaking research or came up with something original and innovative it would be a totally different story. Unfortunately Dr. Gauci doesn't seem to fall in any of these categories. --Roderick Mallia 16:09, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Further reading of what Tancarville said above (see Vassallo-Paleologo) this "style" of Count is not what we would normally consider nobility, as it passes to all descendents. So remaining claims to notability are that he is an expert in pain and nobility, which makes it marginal. Rich Farmbrough 16:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Totally disagree with your comments regarding Dr CA Gauci, and your a lecturer at RMA. Take pity as you dont know this distinguished man. In many eyes he is similiar to Dr Debono. Maltesecount 19:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Dr CA Gauci is also a part time lecturer at the Royal University of Malta and is well known not only in the shores of Malta. So I believe he should be left as is. Maltesecount 19:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep CA Gauci has keep us Maltese in tact as a nation with his books on birds and of those on the Maltese surnames of Coat of Arms. Keep his profile in tact please. Zepplin 22:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment This is getting rediculous. Both Maltesecount and Zepplin are brand new accounts with 3 edits each, to this AfD and their user pages. Wikipedia is not a democracy, so creating new accounts to flood this discussion will not affect the outcome as any competent administratior will discount both of these "votes" as per Wikipedia policy. Caerwine 20:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Aparently there is some foal play over here. Most interesting is the talk page of Maltesecount. "Born with a silver spoon my desires are to ensure the Maltese nobility are given a fair play in this wonderful world we live in.". The underlying meaning within this user is to prevent deletion of this article!! Admins, take notice of the three users which posted DELETION notification who are brand new entrants to wikipidea. Maltesedog 06:02, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment This is very unfair and importantly the discussions should be based on Dr CA Gauci not other users? --Zepplin 08.09, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment It seems that all of a sudden we're getting flooded with "Counts" and "Dukes" and whatnot. This is SO pathetic. I really can't decide whether to laugh or feel ashamed at this childish behaviour. --Roderick Mallia 21:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment No law against the Nobility from responsing is there?? Also why cant we support people we admire that are of merit?? Maltesecount 07:28, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment Keep in mind that this is no election. This is just a discussion amongst Wikipedians where anyone can voice his/her opinions in a civil way. But we have all noticed (and I hope the admins have too) that there have been three users who are supposedly 'noble' who have registered and whose first (and possibly last) posts where made in this discussion. Coincidences don't happen that easily. Also please do keep in mind that we're all equal in here so forget the titles, whistles and bells you're accustomed to. Being of noble descent doesn't entitle you to any privileges like flooding a discussion (which in a way is vandalism). --Roderick Mallia 07:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment This is absurd, Roderick Mallia. I now cant use my surname as a username? Lets remember this forum is about Dr CA Gauci MD, not about some of us that are of Noble Maltese descent. Roderick and Maltesedog - Get a life. --Preziosi 08:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment It seems that Roderick Mallia and Maltesedog have teamed up to fight for the deletion of Dr CA Gauci, but it doesnt seem ok for others to support it? Even if they logged on to support such works?? Wikipedia is about democracy, not socialism or communism, which you both seem to argue deletion!!!!. I really believe that Wikipedia should take a strong look at Maltesedog and Roderick Mallia as they have demostrated foul play in a constant arguing about everything other then the subject we are here to discuss, which is Charles Gauci. --Tancarville 18:23, 22 September 2005 (EST)
  • Comment Wikipedia is not a democracy as Caerwine said. You have to abide to the rules. Did you read the wikipedia rules on Biographies? Nobility does not fit under the category. Btw, I have not teamed up with anyone. I just suggested deletion of the article, and 7 persons voted for deletion. This is no democracy, however if you beieve there is democracy, there is always the majority rule. Any votes placed by the same users are invalid. Maltesedog 11:48, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment Preziosi, I'm not implying that you can't use your name and surname or title; it doesn't really make a difference to me or to anyone else. I'm just saying that I find it strange that all of a sudden the Wiki is being overrun by Maltese nobility. And please stick to the facts and to what I stated instead of attacking me personally. Other people who share my opinion have stated this fact before me, and yet it seems like I'm the only one who said it. And even if there was only one person who said it, you still haven't got a right to attack him like that. Tancerville, I haven't teamed up with anybody. I'm just another Wikipedian who, while doing some interwiki work between the en.wiki and the mt.wiki (of which I'm an admin), happened to stumble on this discussion (if you can call it so) and decided to leave his two cents. I just stated an opinion, which I'm entitled to of course, as have all the people here. Why you're attacking me and Maltesedog personally when there are others who oppose the article is still beyond my comprehension. And what is all this talk about foul play? If I have committed any wrong in stating what I think, I honestly invite the admins to take actions. Tancerville, you seem to preach so much about democracy and yet you can't accept an honest opinion or point of view from anybody else if it differs from what you think. You really should get *at least* a crash-course in manners, etiquette and Wikipedia policy before posting anything else. --Roderick Mallia 11:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
        • Comment Roderick Mallia, maltesedog's two cents are worth just that. No thing more. His initial comments were "Delete or reduce drastically the content".--Tancarville 22:45, 22 September 2005 (EST)
          • What do you expect the first line on the afd page of an article proposed by me for deletion to be? Keep? Anyway. Maltesedog 13:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.