Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cecelia Cichan

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Merge and redirect to Northwest Airlines Flight 255. WaltonOne 15:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cecelia Cichan

Cecelia Cichan (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable except for being sole survivor of a plane crash. The last paragraph indicates that her ten 15 minutes of fame are up - she isn't a public figure anymore. Delete per WP:NOT#NEWS. Resurgent insurgent 04:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge to the article about the crash. The fact that there was a sole survivor, a four year-old girl at that, is certainly worthy of inclusion, but not of its own article. fuzzy510 04:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:NOT#NEWS - The one line mention in the plane article seems sufficient Corpx 04:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Agree per Fuzzy and don't you get 15 minutes of fame rather than 10? :) Either way, I think the pertinent information can easily be sectioned off in the main crash article. This stand-alone can then be deleted.Dick G 04:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak keep Ehhh, I don't know. She got quite the media storm, judging from what Google News cares to remember; her name pops up in the news every now and then since the year 2000; and Detroit Free Press just published this yesterday, an article of which she is the subject. Ichormosquito 04:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
    • I'm still not sure of her notability even after reading the DFP's article. It says there has been no public appearances of her since 1988. Resurgent insurgent 05:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep The page clears up several things mis-reported in the media at the time, and is current on her progress thru life. Regardless, she is a public figure, and merits a page. Check-Six 05:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment WP:BLP says "An important rule of thumb when writing biographical material about living persons is 'do no harm'. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid, and as such it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. BLPs must be written conservatively, with regard for the subject's privacy." This actually dictates against morbid curiosity in an injured child creating notability. Her doctors in 1987 said that her "fame" would interfere with her recovery. Her relatives shielded her from publicity. Wikipedia is not a tabloid to satisfy prying eyes. Let her get on with her life as a private individual. Edison 20:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment on Comment Hence - you proved my point - the article on WP about her clears the line between fact and fiction. And you must realize, there is also a line between "notability" and "fame". She is not famous, but she is notable... And that is the whole point.Check-Six 05:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge. I do not see any sort of expansion to this article in the near or any future. However, a complete deletion doesn't seem appropriate. KyuuA4 05:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep - Notability does not expire. Being the sole survivor of a huge airplane that crashed and burned is very notable in my opinion. Fighting for Justice 06:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect to Northwest Airlines Flight 255. The current mention in the article could be improved, but there is no need for a full biography of someone known mainly for this type of tragic incident, especially when they have not sought publicity in any way. --Dhartung | Talk 06:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per dhartung. Ohconfucius 06:44, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Delete to article about the accident. She is known for only one thing. If she becomes famous for something else, she is just finishing college now, then she can have her own article. (Till then the article on the crash can just mention that only one person survived, a four year old child.) Steve Dufour 11:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per Dhartung. Thin Arthur 11:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as is. Notability doesn't disappear with time. By having a separate article more detail can be found out about her. If it is merged back into the main article then detail will be cut out. Is our disk space full? Gillyweed 12:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Generally speaking, WP should not be in the business of "finding out" information about people. Steve Dufour 14:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep since she's the sole survivor of a terrible plane crash. RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 12:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per Dhartung. Lindsay 13:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge, then create a redirect - Her surviving, and the media flurry, exist solely due to the crash.
  • Keep - As a reader, I was glad to have this here since I was curious about what happened to the notable sole survivor of the airplane crash.
  • Keep - "Non-notable except for being sole survivor of a plane crash." But surviving the crash made her notable. Being the only survivor of a crash is notable, even if it was a while ago. Nenyedi • (Deeds•Talk) 16:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per Dhartung. There's plenty of room in the accident article. Single-event notability doesn't merit a separate page. Clarityfiend 19:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Per WP:NOT#NEWS. Note the part which says "After the crash Cecelia Cichan lived with relatives in Birmingham, Alabama, who shielded her from public attention." The NY Times article in 1987 said "the psychiatrists said that the huge outpouring of support for the child could itself hinder her emotional recovery, Dr. Salk said her celebrity could distract her from the introspection she needs to move toward recovery." No evidence that satisfying peoples' morbid curiosity at this time will help her in any way. No indication she is seeking publicity at this time. She is already mentioned in Northwest Airlines Flight 255. She was not a notable four year old at the time of the crash, her actions in no way affected the event, and she has led an ordinary life since then. Fails WP:BIO and WP:N. No need to merge the rest of her life story into the crash article, because it is unrelated to the cause of the crash. Going to college is not a notable accomplishment. If she gets a bio article for surviving a plane crash, then every other survivor of a plane crash should get an article, which is also contrary to WP:BIO. Edison 20:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Notable due to crash. ¿SFGiДnts! ¿Complain! ¿Analyze! ¿Review! 20:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per WP:NOT#NEWS. wikipediatrix 21:08, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge Keep her as a footnote to the actual crash page. Jmlk17 22:27, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Being the sole surviver of an air disaster is pretty notable. N. Harmon 16:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Wow, I remember Cecelia Cichan without even looking. Odd that the nomination got posted like 20 years to the day after she survived that plane crash in Detroit. Mandsford 03:32, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
The reason for that is that the anniversary of the crash was mentioned on WP's main page and so drew the attention of lots of editors. Steve Dufour 02:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm not saying this to hurt anyone's feelings, but I can see from some of the comments here that lots of WP editors don't really get the concept of WP:N. Steve Dufour 02:27, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Speaking for myself, I believe I do know the concept of notability. Perhaps the nominator was very young, at the time of this accident, but I remember this girl gaining lots of significant coverage in 1987. I believe people would like to know what became of her beyond just being a footnote to the crash. Her notability should not expire just because it's been 20 years. From a historical perspective she is notable as the majority of victims from a huge airplane crash die. Fighting for Justice 02:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
The fact that only one person survived the crash is worth mentioning. Ms Cichan herself is not notable. The same thing if a meteorite fell and killed someone. That would be worth mentioning in the article on meteorites, but that person shouldn't have his own article. Steve Dufour 16:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, received press coverage in reliable sources. Also as stated by Fighting for Justice, notability does not expire. --musicpvm 02:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Per WP:NOT#NEWS, a topic must have "historic notability" Corpx 02:59, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment This one was notable, in that it was a baby who was the lone surivor of a jet crash, and she escaped almost unscathed. As with Jessica McClure, the kid who fell in the well later that year, people still wonder about whatever happened to her, especially 20 years later. Unlike you or me, people wonder what ever happened to a person who had, shall we say, an unusual childhood. See, if you walked away unscathed as the lone survivor of a plane crash, you'd be on the Today show and you'd be famous for a day, but nobody would remember your name after a week. On the other hand, a child in the same situation is memorable. The same with Baby Jessica. If I fell in a well, and was rescued, people would say, "What an asshole, look how much money he cost everybody by falling in a well." But it was different with a small child. Not all survivors are noteworthy: adults are lucky just to have survived, but the media did focus on little Cecilia and with good reason. I think anybody who remembers the 1987 Northwest crash might have forgotten her name, but most remembered the story. Mandsford 17:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.