Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cauldron (Shackled City)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. W.marsh 14:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cauldron (Shackled City)

Cauldron (Shackled City) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested prod. Ghits from fansites don not provide real-world content, context or reliable secondary sources to demonstrate notability outside the Dungeons & Dragons canon.--Gavin Collins 10:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related deletions. --Gavin Collins 10:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - I'm tempted to say speedy keep on the basis of the truly incomprehensible AfD listing. What fan site? Paizo? Paizo is, in this context, a primary source, I'll grant, but they're the publisher (or were at the time) of the world's most subscribed roleplaying magazine, so I don't think "fan site" is appropriate. What's more, using insulting or derogatory terms in referring to the subjects of an article in the AfD listing is just bad form in the extreme. Gavin Collins's crusade against fantasy-related articles on Wikipedia is 'widely documented elsewhere, but this AfD will certainly become the touchstone of concerns about his edits. -Harmil 12:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. Just a note here... Gavin meant Google hits, of course (as he explained here), but since this makes at least twice that I've seen this same misunderstanding happen, maybe we should all try to write out Google hits or write it as G-hits or something. Pinball22 14:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about misunderstanding, though it was quite a confusing sentence. As others have stated, Cauldron was the central topic of 12 issues of one of the worlds two most popular gaming publications (the most popular, if you're only talking about roleplaying games). The problem (as I noted at Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions) is that the idea that notability is not inherited breaks down when a topic such as Arrakis is the central setting of an otherwise notable work of fiction. Is the central setting notable? I think that it does inherit that notability (where, for example, the dragon that appeared in issue 11 of the Shackled City series would not, because it's a minor feature of the notable story). Shackled City was the first of a line of 3 adventure paths that each spanned a year of Dungeon (12 issues) and was widely written about within the gaming industry (see the Shackled City article). That's all about Cauldron and the story-line that took it from obscure outpost in the Greyhawk lore to the exploded and ruined center of a major plotline. -Harmil 00:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

• Redirect to Shackled City - The adventure is notable but its locations aren't, per WP:NOTINHERITED Percy Snoodle 13:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge and Redirect to Shackled City. Pinball22 14:17, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect per Pinball22. -RJH (talk) 18:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: That's right, we must delete this trivial article that's only useful to a few thousand people in order to save electrons. Remember, save those electrons, they're more important than you think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.139.148.100 (talk) 18:23, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, absolutely, per Harmil. At worst, merge per Pinball22. BOZ 18:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Notability cannot be established. BreathingMeat 22:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Opinion revised after notability ref added BreathingMeat 01:54, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I've added a note about the ENnie awards that S.C. was nominated for. Since Cauldron was the primary focus of that book, and much of the book was the history, location and people of Cauldron both the adventure path and the fictional city itself are, IMHO, quite notable. -Harmil 00:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge and Redirect - I think merging it to Shackled City As 2 people have suggested above would be the best solution. --businessman332211 04:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per Harmil--Robbstrd 21:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep as per Harmil. Edward321 03:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.