Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caucasian Albanians

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was (Merge and) redirect. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 08:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Although the AFD was not visited by many editors, there is a clear consensus that (in my view) is also a correct consensus. Looking at the coverage of the proposed mergeto article, it's very hard to see a good case for Caucasian Albanians as well as Caucasian Albania. Any information related to the topic will be added to the existing article.

[edit] Caucasian Albanians

Caucasian Albanians (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

It have been suggested in Talk:Caucasian_Albanians#more_info_reqd that this article should be redirecte to Caucasian Albania because it doesn't provide any "new information" besides that article. I don't agree with this reasoning, so I decided to put this article on afd and hear the third party view. Please read that discussion and give your opinion, thanks.--Pejman47 22:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

merge and redirect to Caucasian Albania#Ancient population of Caucasian Albania Martijn Hoekstra 15:45, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

• Redirect per above. Pavel Vozenilek 00:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, rename, and expand - The Caucasus Albanians, more commonly known as Arranis up until the 20th century, did exist as a people. Note that Caucasus Albanian is the latin term for Arranis, the term Arranis produces much more hits. Sources have been presented, I will post them here again:

References to the language:

Al-Muqaddasi wrote in 985:

В Армении говорят по-армянски, а в Арране по-аррански; когда они говорят по-персидски, то их можно понимать, а их персидский язык кое в чем напоминает хурасанский. [1]

In Armenia they speak Armenian, and in Arran Arranian; when they speak Persian, they could be understood, and their Persian somewhat resembles Khorasani.

Ibn-Hawqal wrote in 978:

Что касается до языка жителей Адербейджана и большинства жителей Армении, то это персидский и арабский, но мало кто говорит по-арабски, а, кроме того, говорящие по-персидски не понимают по-арабски. Чисто по-арабски говорят купцы, владельцы поместий, а для многих групп населения в окраинах Армении и прилежащих стран существуют другие языки, как армянский — для жителей Дабиля и области его, а жители Берда'а говорят по-аррански. [2]

Too long to translate, the relevant line is: people of Barda speak Arranian.

Al-Istakhri wrote in 930:

Язык в Адербейджане, Армении и Арране персидский и арабский, исключая области города Дабиля: вокруг него говорят по-армянски: в стране Берда'а язык арранский. [3]

In Aderbeijan, Armenia and Arran they speak Persian and Arabic, except for the area around the city of Dabil: they speak Armenian around that city, and in the country of Barda people speak Arranian.

From the Western scholar Swietochowski:

The Turkic speakering Muslims of Russian held Azerbaijan, commonly known as Shirvanis and sometimes by the medieval name of Arranis... (page 10, Russia and Azerbaijan: A Borderland in Transition)

This article, as written now, specifies only the ancient history of these people, and it does not address the these people after they were Turkified.Hajji Piruz 22:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

• Merge into Caucasian Albania. The article provides no info that is not already contained in the article about Caucasian Albania. Grandmaster 07:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect to Caucasian Albania until that article needs to be split. There is no point having a separate article if it doesnt expand on what is on the main article. Nobody except Hajji Piruz has tried to present new information, and frankly, it is usually fringe and sourced insufficiently to allow appropriate review. John Vandenberg 07:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.