Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CGU-verse

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CGU-verse

Insignificant personal universe, not noteworthy 128.100.138.41 17:54, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• Delete nonsense Ashibaka (tock) 19:03, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Personal universe that's involved in no published stories in any media and has no following on or offline.--Sindai 20:30, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, on the same grounds as Afd/Central Galactic Union. 38 google hits, and I found out that this is merely some piece of amateuristic fiction from sciforums.com. Nazgjunk - - Signing is ^{for Whimps} 20:44, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete original research/unpublished fiction. — Haeleth Talk 22:45, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Just because it isn't famous doesn't mean it doesn't exist. What about Orion's Arm? What about a lot of the verses in the Other section of the "Fictional Governments" thing? Just because it is insignificant to YOU doesn't mean it is insignificant to everyone. P.S- Check the links, they verify the existence of Pyro Pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.220.157.93 (talk • contribs) 2005-11-23 22:37:28 (UTC)

However, something that is not referenced anywhere except by its authors, however significant it is and however good it is, falls foul of Wikipedia's No Original Research policy. In addition, we have certain guidelines for determining whether works of fiction should be included. The mere fact that something exists does not guarantee it a place in Wikipedia. — Haeleth Talk 22:45, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

What would I need to do to keep this on Wikipedia? This is info I need to get out, and simply having websites just ain't cutting it. It needs to be known, so I can really get this stuff off the ground.

Ok, here is the whole story as far as I can figure it out, as I originally posted at the Central Galactic Union article - at the message board Spacebattles there is a roleplaying tradition in which the original author of this article participated in. He created the "Central Galactic Union" solely for gaming purposes, and specifically for the purposes of this roleplay tradition. Note that this roleplay tradition does not extend beyond the confines of Spacebattles.com. While this entry is encyclopedic for Spacebattles.com, it's barely so even then and hardly encyclopedic for Wikipedia. I'm going to reserve judgement and leave that to the moderators and popular opinion; I just wanted to deliver the background as best as I can figure. If there are any inaccuracies or incompletions, I invite those more knowledgable than me to comment. Hapsburg, if that above comment is from you, what you need to do to justify this staying on Wikipedia is to adapt it to an original universe of your creation, write it in novelized form and get it published. It's a lot of work but it's worth it - User:24.9.10.235

1. WE at PyroPics thought of the CGuverse long before I joined SB. 2. Well, don't all SciFi's borrow concepts, ideas, etc. from other sci-fi's as well as from history? Especially since the CGUverse is an allegorical tale. 3. Well, can you at least keep this on here for the time being? It took a damn long time to write this, and a damn long time to write the story. We have entered it in a writing contest, and are working on getting it published. This is close enough to at least keep the article open, so that people can learn about the CGU-verse while we get it into the public. Besides, I have written this pretty much neutrally, as the NPOV rules state.

We would advise you to develop your concept and promote it, through appropriate channels. Do what you can to get your story released by a major publishing house and noticed by the mainstream science-fiction media. By the time your book has received media attention and sold maybe a few hundred thousand copies, it will definitely be ready for an article on Wikipedia. Andrew Levine 01:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Andrew, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for your input. To direct my attention back to Hapsburg, as I have said in the main article, and as I have said back at Spacebattles, get it published. It's a lot of work but it's very much worth it. I would also like to note that, like you, I have invested a lot of time and effort creating a universe for another roleplay, and that I'm currently working on getting it adapted into novel form for publication. There's no guarantee that it will be successful or even published, but I'm willing to expend the effort. Believe me, it's much more productive than trying to get noteriety though Wikipedia first - User:24.9.10.235

And one more important point, Hapsburg - sign your comments thusly: [ [User: YourIPAddressHere] ] (no spaces in between the brackets) Unsigned comments are considered lacking of respect here, and you're already in hot water in the eyes of this community for creating this article in the first place User:24.9.10.235

• Delete for reasons mentioned above. -Falcorian 04:13, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Another spacebattler here. Delete this article. To Hapsburg: are you trying to get banned from every site you go to? This is not a suitable Wikipedia article, maybe if you posted it on Uncyclopedia it could fit more there... Maybe. There's no real content, as has been stated previously. He was criticized for spamming this CGU on Spacebattles and now, for some reason, he's brought it to wikipedia.

And yes, this CGU 'borrows' from established universes. And by borrow, I mean he plagiarizes and steals, everything from other people's art to ship designs (and names) from various TV series (in particular, Babylon 5). Delete this article. And, Hapsburg, if you're worried about it getting deleted here's a hint: Use Microsoft Word or a free website. Don't clog up wikipedia with your CGU. If you are serious about publishing this, then get some original designs and ideas for once. Don't steal everything. kthxbye. User: Lord Azrael

• Strong delete as respectfully as such a vote can be made. To the writer, you've obviously put some time into this project. If you ever hope to sell it to a publisher you will thank me for this vote. Buy a guide to fiction writing, keep works in progress off the Internet, and keep going. Durova 07:13, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Not the place to publish new material.. websites aren't cutting it.. please see WP:NOT Srl 10:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, how can I sign my name with a user thing when I'm not a user on wikipedia? Or if I don't know my IP #? I didn't steal anything, and I have no idea what you are talking about, Azrael. All of the names for ships were thought up by Weston, he also made pretty much all of the art for it. At least, that is what he told me, and I wouldn't be a friend if I did not trust him on that. All of the character names are things we thought of, so what are you talking about? I've never seen Babylon 5, what is it? As for what some of ya'll called "innaccuracies"...well, I did what ya'll told me to do, and changed the stuff on it, and I did, and ya'll are still complaining. And stop calling me "hapsburg", that ain't my name. -Alex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.220.157.93 (talk • contribs)

• Delete "This is info I need to get out, and simply having websites just ain't cutting it." Wikipedia isn't for self-promotion. --StoatBringer 22:49, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not promoting myself, I'm putting information that the public needs to know into the publicness, as one onf my friends at school suggested.

As I have said in the other entries (in addition on how to find your own IP address), I have good reason to believe your friend Weston is a lying cheat and thief, and is flat-out using you for the self-promotion of his fanwank. Dump him.

And no, the public does not need to know about the CGU-verse just because your asshat friend suggested it. - User: 24.9.10.235

• I would like to finally cast my vote on this article - as with the main article, I vote to KEEP, but with conditions - this article should be removed from the main site but still accessible somewhere to the public in its entirety (particularly all discussion pages) to serve as an example and teaching aid for future Wikipedia article construction. - User: 24.9.10.235
  • Wikipedia is not a hosting service. Unclear what you mean by 'not on main site but accessible'. If the wikipedia help and guidelines such as WP:NOT are unclear then they should be updated. Srl 00:30, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Once again I think you misunderstand me - at least keep the discussion pages archived so that future authors may understand the consequences of creating articles like these. There's a lot of issues covered under here other than the whole encyclopedic/original research issue - copyrights, for one. I think that by having an example (at least in the form of these preserved discussion pages) future authors will better understand what constitutes a good Wikipedia by understand what constitutes a bad article. User: 24.9.10.235
• Why is it a bad article? I followed the main guidelines: NPOV, etc, etc.

Besides, man, where else can I put this much info on the CGU-verse in this manner? No where else, that's why I like wikipeda: it's unique in how the information is done. -Alex, Confederate.

• You can put all this information on your MSN group, or a website, but not on wikipedia. Wikipedia is not the place to list insignificent personal universes. It is unpublished, not very well known content. Orion's Arm, Babylon 5, Star Trek, all of those universes are much, much more well known then the CGU, hence why they can be found in wikipedia. User:Lord Azrael.
• And Alex illustrates maybe why at least these discussion pages should be preserved and archived (including my article in the discussion section of the Central Galactic Union article concerning the proper origin of the images). - User: 24.9.10.235
  • I think these pages are archived even if the main pages are deleted (should that be a delete vote then?). But rather than being a example, the documentation should be improved and clarified. Alex asks why it is a bad article: because (as in the first line of this page, and i agree) is not notable, see WP:VAIN. where else can I put this much info on the CGU-verse in this manner? Maybe on a Wikicities if you like this format? There's a science fiction section I think. (I don't know much about them). 24.9 please explain what you mean by 'why this should be preserved'? Why does it belong on Wikipedia? That's the whole question here.. Srl 07:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm not saying it should be on Wikipedia at all - in fact, I agree with the consensus that it doesn't belong here. However, I feel that some lesson from this should be preserved in some form and presented to those creating new articles (not the general public searching for articles) so that some lesson can be learned here. And I do believe there are a lot of lessons to be learned here that the WP:NOT does not adequetely cover - User: 24.9.10.235
    • If the consensus is to delete the article under discussion as original research (which the author has admitted it to be), then the article and its talk page will be deleted, and this discussion page will remain as a historical archive of the deletion discussion. Uncle G 01:25, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
• Wait, wait, so, you're telling me that I can put all of this information down on this "wikicities", and it won't get deleted because of its obscurity? Why didn't you guys tell me about this in the first place? -Alex, Confederate.
  • Alex, You need to read their documentation and see if it is a good fit. All I know is that they use the same software as Wikipedia, and they have existing projects or let you propose a new project yourself. I mentioned it because you said you liked this format. If you have your own web host, you can even run this software MediaWiki on your own account and do whatever you want with it. In summary, I'm not saying that it won't get deleted there, I'm just saying that if it is not suitable for an encyclopedia, perhaps there is another project elsewhere that it is a good fit for. Check into it.. Srl 18:26, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Alex, I wouldn't just jump headlong into Wikicities and just start up an article there - that's what got you into this mess in the first place. Like what Srl said, read over things carefully - and you might end up being better off creating a separate page and maybe using the MediaWiki software anyway. Like I said, you'll need to read things over carefully - User: 24.9.10.235
• Delete per nom. — RJH 01:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

While I'm at it, I feel I need to mention that, for future reference, Alex, you should be more careful about verifying the originality of artwork and more careful to avoid plagirism - User: 24.9.10.235

• Delete. Preaky 07:09, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Wait, wait, why would you care if I got screwed over because of the artwork? Ya'll obviously hate me, so why would you yankees wanna help me? -Alex, Confederate.

Please, stop using yankee as an insult. You are an American, are you not? I believe you stated that you were. Also, not everyone here is American, for instance, I am Australian. Using 'yankee' as an insult makes you look like a moron. User:Lord Azrael

By "yankee", I meant "northerner". Sorry if I thing against them, and I am sorry if I assume that a lot people on an international english-language website are from the US. But, my point was: why would you want me to not get screwed over if you hate me? -Alex, Confederate.

You also may be assuming that those in the US are northerners.. or that those who vote for deletion wouldn't want to help you anyways. Srl 09:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I meant the people who are telling me that I'll get screwed over if I, as you call it, "plagiarize". Why would they want to not see me get arrested? -Alex, Confederate.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.