Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bulgarians in Albania

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. After discounting the comments (on both sides) that appear to be motivated by nationalist zeal rather than policy, there's really no serious argument here that would support deleting this article. If you think its contents are wrong, go ahead and fix it. AfD is not cleanup or a substitute for dispute resolution.  Sandstein  20:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgarians in Albania

Bulgarians in Albania (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

This article shoud be removed becouse it is only spreading false informations,and spreads Bulgarian idea of San Stefano Bulgaria.No neutral sources about Bulgarian minority in Albania.

Makedonij (talk) 21:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

  • DELETE imediately- no such thing in Albania. Regards --MacedonianBoy (talk) 09:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment; useless,+ Laveol is useing double standarts,the sources he mention are valid here,but not valid when the word is about Macedonian minority in Bulgaria.--Makedonij (talk) 09:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment You are the nominator, you should have signed the nomination so it doesn't look as though you are 'voting' twice.--Doug Weller (talk) 18:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep Are you serious? If there are two self-proclaimed Bulgarian associations in Albania, this is a no-brainer. Besides, the article doesn't even claim that all Slavophones are ethnic Bulgarians, so what's the problem? It seems that those behind this AfD think that if you speak a Slavic dialect and happen to live in the wider geographical region of Macedonia, you can only be an "ethnic Macedonian", whether you like it or not. These are the same people who believe there can be no such thing as Slavophone Greeks. Please. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 11:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment:Are you serius,100,000 Bulgarians in Albania??That is more than 50,000 Greeks in Albania which barly maded recognation along whit Macedonian minority,and now we have 100,000 Bulgarians???Fany,this is nationalistic POV,and nothing more!!Makedonij (talk) 21:57, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong keep - the article is heavily referenced. This is an obvious POV nomination with I have to say pretty unsubstantial evidence. Are these links the reason for deletion, cause if this is the case I don't think the nomination is serious. --Laveol T 14:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment:You can watch the contributions of Special:Contributions/Laveol and see that more than 50% of his actions are engagement in negating the Macedonian Nation and its attributes.Makedonij (talk) 22:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong delete useless... and bulgarian POV--Raso mk (talk) 17:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy KeepI can't see any rationale for deleting it. I don't know what the references of the nominator are supposed to tell us, the article seems referenced adequately. I am not happy about this article being nominated. 'Useless' is not a reason for deletion, and we don't delete articles just because someone thinks they are POV. Nor are we going to delete 'immediately' in any case.--Doug Weller (talk) 18:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong delete Bulgarian Nationalistic Propaganda, Anti-Macedonian. There is no reality check in this article. --Ejanev (talk) 21:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment:Those aren't reasons for deletion, I don't like it is not an argument for deletion. --Doug Weller (talk) 21:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment:Yes they are, and i ask him many times to show real references,and he did not.So i ofer real references which clearly shows that there are no Bulgarians in Albania,and for shure not 100.000 of them.This is POV natonalistic propaganda which can only be used in Bg WIKI not here.There is not a single evidence of Bulgarians in Albania.The point of this article is show to the world Bulgarian view of non existion of Macedonian nation!!!+ Laveol do not accept those references when the word is about Macedonian minority in Bulgaria!Makedonij (talk) 21:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
On the contrary - there are neutral sources, but you have refused to look into them. I'm wondering when will you understand that Wikipedia is not a game. And why are you showing these references here? How are they relevant to the AFD? This is just some joke, right? --Laveol T 22:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Comment:Joke for you,yes!If there are 50,000 Greeks and 5,000 Macedonians,the Albanians woud probebly recognised Bulgarians to,if there is a number of 100,000 of them!?Dont!Maybe we shoud write an article that Bulgarians claim that they were found on MARS to?--Makedonij (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. Seems like a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT by some people. --Tsourkpk (talk) 23:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a well referenced article with numerous verifiable sources on a legitimate topic. Artene50 (talk) 05:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
        • Comment. I do agree that the article is unencyclopedic. But a clean up and reworking of the article to remove bias is needed. PMK1 (talk) 06:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep There are only facts in the article! Jingby (talk) 08:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment:Rule No.4 say,Please consider notifying the author(s),so the authors are only 3,many out wiki canvaseing in here!Once again this article is National POV pushing and the author did not reedit it,even he was informed a couple of time.On the other hand national minorities in Albania do not include Bulgarians,and OSCE,will probebly mention Bulgarians if they were there.--Makedonij (talk) 09:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Not very wise to raise the issue about off-wiki canvassing since two users turned up for an immediate delete ... how bizarre. As you say me and Jingiby are the only two Bulgarians voting here. --Laveol T 09:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy keep. It would be original research to claim that there is no bulgarians in Albania. --Eivind (t) 09:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep The primary objection here seems to be POV, which is a content issue and not a criteria for deletion. There's a very obvious, simmering issue here of ethnic and national rivalry which is very notable in its own right. The fact that this article doesn't yet discuss this tension, or mention alternative views, is a good opportunity to WP:Be Bold and add that information. Debate (talk) 12:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep: Article is well-referenced from multiple reliable sources. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 12:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • keep Seems to be a very well referenced and encyclopedic article. I can't think of a single reason to delete it. Ijanderson977 (talk) 13:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep It is referenced. --Gligan (talk) 20:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep for the time being. This article is related to Macedonians in Albania (which represents the Macedonian POV without any mention of the Bulgarian POV); ideally the two articles should be merged into one, because they are dealing with the same group of people whose ethnicity is disputed, but just naming that article will be like entering an ethnic minefield. Preslav (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment: How can their ethnicity be disputed?? Their is official an Ethnic Macedonian minority in Albania. Their is no official bulgarian one. PMK1 (talk) 06:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Because there is a significant number of people who have a different POV on this compared to the official Albanian one, there is a dispute. That this minority POV is not endorsed by any government doesn't matter. Actually, because of the official Albanian POV, I now consider it best to merge this article into Macedonians in Albania. Preslav (talk) 16:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep per the reasons given by User:Debate. Dimadick (talk) 07:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete I was hesistant to vote delete but one contributor will not accept any change to the article to remove the POV information. You cant constructively create an encyclopedic entry like this. PMK1 (talk) 06:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep/Comment I'm voting I voted to keep, though most parts of the article need to be completely reworded. It looks like a POV-fork ("ethnic Macedonians are Bulgarians, therefore an ethnic Macedonian minority in Albania are actually a brainwashed Bulgarian minority") and a section should probably be added to the Macedonians in Albania article. --Hegumen (talk) 07:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment, ethnic Macedonians are Bulgarians?? WTF?? whats wrong with you? PMK1 (talk) 02:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
No, no, no. That's their reasoning for a Bulgarian minority in Albania. --Hegumen (talk) 07:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.