Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Breton Americans

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I discounted one keep comment that seemed to be about the category rather than the article as irrelevant. Delete arguments were strong here, and the main keep response (they exist) did not address those concerns. I will replace with a redirect to French American. Mangojuice^talk 15:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Breton Americans

Breton Americans (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

This seems to be an arbitrary subdivision of the ancestry group French American. Googling "Breton American" or "Breton Americans" gives no relevant results. The fact that no-one designates him- or herself as a 'Breton American' on the census forms is somewhat indicative of the fact that the group isn't any different from French Americans except in the more particular geography of their original home. Hence, it seems to be no more notable than 'Hampshire American' or 'Sachsen American'. Bastin 10:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

• Weak Keep The Breton people are culturally, ethnically, and (historically) linguistically distinctive from the French. Bretons are Celts. The Hampshire analogy is faulty: Breton-Americans are to French-Americans as Welsh-Americans are to English-Americans. The US census's choice to lump Bretons and French together is irrelevant to the fact that Bretons are culturally distinct. --Charlene 12:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment. If they're culturally distinct, where's the proof? Where are the people claiming to be 'Breton-American'? Where are the Internet sites and books? By all accounts, it's not the US Census Bureau lumping them together; it's the fact that there's no-one opting out and using the term 'Breton-American' (unlike those that choose to write in 'British American'). BTW, Wales isn't part of England; Bretagne is part of France. Bastin 14:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually Wales was legally part of England "when Hawaii was annexed to the United States it remained a separate legal unit; but when Wales was conquered by England it became a part of the legal unit, England". http://www.constitution.org/cmt/jhb/conflict_laws.htm JASpencer 14:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

It is explained in the wikilink I provided. It WAS a part of England between the Wales and Berwick Act 1746 and the Welsh Language Act 1967. However, nowadays, it is not a part of England. Hence the term England and Wales. Bastin 16:08, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it looks like the U.S. Census Bureau does include self-described Bretons within the French ancestry category. See this page to see how ethnicities are grouped together by the U.S. Census. --Metropolitan90 16:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Distinct cultural group that supplied a disproportionate number of French emigrants to America. Just because the French state wishes that everyone in its borders is French doesn't necesarily make it so. JASpencer 14:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
• Conditional delete unless anyone can add information specific to Breton Americans other than that they exist. I don't have anything to say about whether they're a recognised demographic, but at it stands this article is a dictionary definition (Breton Americans are Americans from Brittany). -- Mithent 22:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect to French American per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cantonese American, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Malaysian American. cab 00:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - A culture isn't one unless at least some putative members are willing to call themselves that! Coren 00:44, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete for the simple reason that the term is not in use with 112 ghits for breton.american and just 6 for breton.americans, including ourselves. Now, I am happy to agree that Bretons are a distinct subgroup of the French, certainly linguistically (marginally less so ethnically and culturally). And we do have things like Category:Catalan Americans. But the Breton autonomy situation is muted in comparison and the French federal system offers no similar regional distinctions (e.g. there is no Corsican American, although Corsica is about as non-French as France gets). So in this case, fails WP:ATT. (And I know a Breton-American.) --Dhartung | Talk 06:59, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep This category is part of a large scheme of categories based on ethnicity and/or national origin Category:American people by ethnic or national origin. Bretons are a distinct ethnic group. The category should stay; removal should be considered in light of WP:BIAS, and whether we would feel equally comfortable dumping Irish Americans in with the English Americans if their ancestors arrived while Ireland was ruled by London (as Brittany is ruled by Paris). Carlossuarez46 20:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.