Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brazil as an emerging superpower

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

I have considered the discussion, and am inclined to view deletion of these two pages as appropriate for the moment; equally, I should not be surprised if a well-sourced article may be written on the subject before very long. —Encephalon 05:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brazil as an emerging superpower

Information essentially duplicated from Brazil, I can't see the need for a seperate article on this. Contested prod, so sending to AfD to get consensus. For my part, Delete as duplicate material. Akradecki 16:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

As of Oct 16, I am adding Brazil as an emerging great power to this AfD, based on the fact that it is OR copied from other deleted articles, and essentially duplicates material found in the existing Brazil articles. Akradecki 22:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• delete essay/OR-like, poorly sourced DesertSky85451 17:35, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Basic premise (that Brazil is an emerging superpower) not properly sourced. As a result this is little more than crystal balling. It seems to be a re-creation (in spirit, if not yet in substance) of Potential Superpowers—Brazil, which was recently deleted for violations of WP:NOT, WP:OR, and WP:V (deletion debate). Xdamr^talk 17:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above: WP:NOR. PJM 17:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete speculation. Gazpacho 18:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete; OR. Vectro 18:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. The other "... as emerging superpower" articles were at least well written. Pavel Vozenilek 22:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
• Clear Delete at this point, the only emerging superpower articles which should exist are the China, India and EU ones which already do exist. Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 02:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Reluctant Delete:While India, China and EU are stronger candidates for future superpowers, Brazil has made remarkable economic progress and some sources have quoted it as a possible economic superpower.However, the sources are few and far between and often the tone of the source is more rhetorical in nature than definite. If the article cannot be expanded further or more reliable sources provided that explicitly list reasons as to why Brazil is an emergent superpower then the article should be deleted.Hkelkar 02:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

There are other possible emerging superpowers which have sometimes been mentioned in these pages, these have prominently been Russia and Brazil, but there have been examples of Japan, the UK and even Pakistan sometimes being mentioned by some users as emerging superpowers. If we let such unilateral decisions made by users stand then we'll have way too many emerging superpower articles. Brazil's rise is not as widely documented as that of India, China's and the EU's. Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 02:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - The concept is out there. I've put in a couple of references. JASpencer 12:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - I've put in a couple of references. And I change the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by João Felipe C.S (talk • contribs)
  • Comment - Okay, the sourcing does improve things, but I still don't see why we need a seperate article. Seems to me that this information is better placed in Brazil or Economy of Brazil or both. Having too many articles that cover slightly different aspects of the same subject fragments things and makes the research of our "customers" too difficult. Akradecki 19:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - This stub mainly contains Brazil's GDP rankings, a fact that is already mentioned in the Brazil article. The rest is speculatory OR. Signature^brendel 19:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
• 'Comment - Brazil is the most powerful nation in South America.Bakaman _Bakatalk 22:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Possibly, but South America isn't exactly a continent which is noted for its decisive influence on world events, nor does this affect the primary issue, the lack of any real sourcing for the basic premise.

Xdamr^talk 02:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment...we need some consistency. The article Superpower defines such a country as "A superpower is a state with the first rank in the international system and the ability to influence events and project power on a worldwide scale". The article provides no quality references to demonstrate in an academically acceptable way that Brazil is anywhere close to being able to project power anywhere in the world, at any time. Yes, Brazil is growing, but there's no verifiable sources to say that it's actually emerging with that ability. Akradecki 04:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It is definitely a regional power, but it is not in a state of growth to an extent to which it seems likely that it will become a superpower, or a nation that is likely to contest the United States and European Union. Note that much of the article is copied from the history of Major power, which was deleted per WP:NOR. Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 07:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - It does seem that the concept or idea that Brazil is an Emerging Superpower is out there in the academic world, and the article does now have some citations to back-up it's claims. I say if the China and India articles can exist then this one can too, it's not about whether we think Brazil can be a superpower or not, it's whether the concept is out there, Wikipedia is about Verifiability not Truth, right? --Hibernian 14:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

But the point is that it isn't verified. The facts such as GDP etc are easily enough sourced, but the main premise most certainly is not. The Jonathan Power article is the only source, a source which in itself fails WP:RS.

Xdamr^talk 22:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. This whole series is riddled with OR, but this article in particular is very problematic. The only source which actually addresses the subject of the article is the Jonathan Power one, and that is a very flimsy source upon which to base an article. Christopher Parham (talk) 20:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Question - Should the article Brazil as an emerging great power be added to this AfD? It appears to be suspect, as well. Akradecki 22:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd be happy about that. Xdamr^talk 22:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Done, added above under my first del reason for the original article. Akradecki 22:43, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I cannot believe… what you they want? At least one emerging great power or global power Brazil is. João Felipe C.S 22:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply I've said it already: put this information where it belongs. We don't need multiple articles on the same subject. Secondly, I think there's folks here who'd say that they want to stop the recreation of OR that has previously been deleted. The definition of "Great Power" includes: "is able to exert power over world diplomacy." Brazil certainly isn't there yet. It's not even in the G8. And, the article that I've added, despite its title, makes no case with verifiable refs that the country can actually do this. All it does is rehash stats on the country without showing how the country influences world diplomacy. (On a side note, I think it's amusing that the article includes a pic of Brazil's lone aircraft carrier, a used boat bought from the French...hardly sufficient "power" to project around the world.) Akradecki 23:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok… I give up. You seems here to be very ignorant to understand… We will see in 2050… João Felipe C.S 23:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - Well, we can't deny that, can we? --Pikolas 00:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Can't deny what? Xdamr^talk 00:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Please elaborate, otherwise I suggest your vote be disregarded. Nobleeagle ^[TALK] [C] 07:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete Brazil is NOT a emerging superpower. Yes, their are reason why some time in the future it could become one but I can also make those reason for some 30 other nations. Also the article is unsource and unverified. Aussie King Pin 06:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Idea - Instead of having some articles on emerging "superpowers" and emerging "great powers", why don't we just have a page about the international status or power status of any country that editors feel it necessary to write about. Leave it up to the editors to some up with the facts (keeping within the WP:OR policy), and let the reader decide for himself! Kevlar67 02:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment umm...I think that's what I've been saying all along, including in my original nom...we already have existing articles that deal with these subjects (in the case of this country, we have Brazil, Foreign relations of Brazil and Economy of Brazil, among others, all of which would easily accomodate the issues involved in the international status of the country). Akradecki 04:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. I agree with Chris. —Encephalon 05:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.