Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brawly
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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was MERGE. Nobody suggested Dewford Town as the merge target, but that's where I intend to merge it. dbenbenn | talk 22:48, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Brawly
A fictional gym instructor who trains Pokémon. Is this in line with Jimbo's goal of creating a resource that is the sum of all human knowledge, or is this yet another example of non-encyclopedic "Pokécruft"? You decide. GRider\talk 00:29, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Delete, not notable, pokemon fancruft. Megan1967 00:49, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Keep per Jimbo's goal. Kappa 01:27, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. If the content for all of the Hoenn Gym Leaders are that short, may I suggest merging them into Hoenn. Zzyzx11 01:54, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge if there's a good place to merge it to, else keep Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:28, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. In general have we not kept Pokémon and the human characters in the series? Also what is up with emphasizing fictional gym instructor? If there are there any real Pokémon gym instructors I would like to see some articles about them. (Actually I do not like the Pokémon at all, but I accept that that universe is large and that articles about characters in it should stay.) Sjakkalle 09:25, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you Sjakkalle for your comments. In your own opinion, is there no bar of notability which needs to be met within the make believe universe of Pokémon for purposes of inclusion? How is it that articles about characters in a fictional universe should be kept, while real characters and locations here on Earth are not? GRider\talk 17:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- That argument makes very little sense. Fictional characters become part of culture, and are usually not comparible with their real-world contemporaries on notability grounds. Mario is a fictional plumber, and is notable as a part of culture, while no real-life plumbers are equally notable. Oliver Twist is a fictional street urchin, and I don't see a whole lot of real-life street urchins with articles. The point is that things are rarely any less notable due to being fictional. Brawly is apparently a gym teacher. Is Pokemon a work of great artistic triumph for the ages? Who cares? Thousands if not millions of people are familiar with this character, which puts him above most (all?) of the real-life gym teachers out there. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:56, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
- Just so I have this straight; you're asserting that a gym teacher from Pokémon is important above most (if not all) gym instructors in real life, while at the same time implying that my argument does not make sense? GRider\talk 18:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Let's look at some facts (keep in mind I'm not a pokemon fan, but I do know a fair amount about video games) Brawly appears in a GB game Pokemon Ruby / Sapphire, which sold 4 million copies during their first six weeks on sale in Japan alone as well as the GBA FireRed/LeafGreen, which broke 1 million copies in its first 21 days of release in the USA. I can't find a single figure of how many of these games were sold total worldwide, but I'd say that 10 million' would be a conservative estimate. I also am not sure whether he has appeared in other games. I'd assume so, but let's move on. He's also appeared on the Pokemon TV series, which is very, very popular. I found one ratings source saying 5 million viewers in the US. Assuming it's at least roughly as popular in Japan (a safe bet) that's a further 10 million exposures, to say nothing of the rest of the world, reruns, etc (oh, and he's also been made into a toy). By even the most conservative guesses, I'd say that at least 20 million people worldwide are familar with this character. Now, really, in all seriousness, how many real-life gym teachers can that be said about? Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:51, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
- Just so I have this straight; you're asserting that a gym teacher from Pokémon is important above most (if not all) gym instructors in real life, while at the same time implying that my argument does not make sense? GRider\talk 18:02, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- That argument makes very little sense. Fictional characters become part of culture, and are usually not comparible with their real-world contemporaries on notability grounds. Mario is a fictional plumber, and is notable as a part of culture, while no real-life plumbers are equally notable. Oliver Twist is a fictional street urchin, and I don't see a whole lot of real-life street urchins with articles. The point is that things are rarely any less notable due to being fictional. Brawly is apparently a gym teacher. Is Pokemon a work of great artistic triumph for the ages? Who cares? Thousands if not millions of people are familiar with this character, which puts him above most (all?) of the real-life gym teachers out there. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:56, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
- I see it as indicative of systemic bias. If this were a character from an obscure sci-fi novel, we'd be falling all over ourselves to keep it. But a ludicrously popular cartoon, especially one of non-US origin, that has to go. I'm no Pokemon fan myself, but it seems pretty much impossible to deny that it's a major part of modern popular culture. On Google, for example, Pokemon gets about twice as many hits as "Mickey Mouse", "Charlie Brown", and "Bugs Bunny" combined! And that's not even counting Japanese-language references! Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:06, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Merge/redirect. Even obscure characters from sci-fi novels get merged into single pages. (eg Minor characters from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) The same rule should apply to cartoons too. This isn't "systemic bias"; it's just a single rule being consistantly applied. Miss Pippa 09:34, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- If the rules being consistently applied to one group of articles are not being consistently applied to a different set of articles, would you not argue that in reality, the rules are not being "consistently applied" at all? GRider\talk 17:14, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge/redirect. Even obscure characters from sci-fi novels get merged into single pages. (eg Minor characters from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) The same rule should apply to cartoons too. This isn't "systemic bias"; it's just a single rule being consistantly applied. Miss Pippa 09:34, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you Sjakkalle for your comments. In your own opinion, is there no bar of notability which needs to be met within the make believe universe of Pokémon for purposes of inclusion? How is it that articles about characters in a fictional universe should be kept, while real characters and locations here on Earth are not? GRider\talk 17:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge all of the Hoenn gym leaders into one article. There's not enough info in them to justify seperate articles. Mgm|(talk) 09:36, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Merge. Is there consensus that minor characters should nearly always be merged? (well, it's somewhat referred to on the WP:WIWO page). Or should we put up a Policy Consensus to determine just that? The argumentation here and on the other minor pokemon characters gets a bit repetitive. Radiant! 09:50, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
- Merge if there is anything this can add to, otherwise delete. Oh, and in the aim of summing up all human knowledge, the carpet on the third step down at work is loose and has been removed. Bet you really needed to know that. Average Earthman 12:42, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Most users don't aim to read the entire wikipedia. Kappa 14:24, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge would be more appropriate. Maybe a List of Pokemon characters? Penwhale 15:24, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- We already have List of Pokémon characters. It's a redirect to List of Pokémon, which is itself a disambiguation page. kelvSYC 03:39, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Delete nn fancruft. ComCat 02:20, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Comment: This article really falls under the domain of Wikipedia:WikiProject Pokénav, a project that aims to create an article about every (non-Pokémon) major figure and place name from the Pokémon universe. The last time I checked, there's been little activity there, with Wikipedia:WikiProject Pokédex taking up most of the interest. kelvSYC 03:39, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and merge/redirect to List of Pokémon. Unless we're running out of disk space that is. In that case, delete! —RaD Man (talk) 07:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge Pokecruft into List of Pokémon, although recent problems with Wikipedia suggest that perhaps we are beginning to run out of disk space. ;-) --Deathphoenix 16:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- No, that's running out of servers ;-) - David Gerard 17:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge somewhere. Please - David Gerard 17:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge. List of Pokémon or another article would be fine. Carrp | Talk 17:42, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Keep. Although I very much concur with Andrew Lenahan; there is a sort of systematic bias present, perhaps better described as selective blindness or a certain form of healthy intellectual arrogance (meaning no offense), due to the prevailing interests of the persons which tend to contribute to wikipedia (and take an interest in voting about such topics as this one) Lectonar 15:58, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Keep and expand (I'd be glad to if no one else will), or Merge with the other Hoenn Gym Leaders. Also, isn't List of Pokémon a list of, well, Pokémon? Brawly is a human character. Ketsy 23:01, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Merge or Delete Does not deserve own page. --Oarias 23:47, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
