Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/BrainBread (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep with only two votes, both for retaining the article. (aeropagitica) 19:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BrainBread

Has been nominated for deletion before and closed with a "no consesus". The only keep arguments put forth were "is widely played" and "first zombie mod for HL". Fails WP's policies on verifiability and reliable sources as well as proposed software guidelines. Delete as such. Wickethewok 20:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, as BrainBread is a considerably notable Half-Life mod. The mod is continuously in the top 20-25 ranking of all Steam multiplayer games and mods being played at any time (Official Steam Stats); it was picked by Valve to be listed in Steam's store, both on the official Steampowered site and through the program itself, as a free mod to download (See its listing at the Steam store, also note that only 24 mods, out of the hundreds and hundreds available, are listed); and it is one of the more popular Half-Life mods today. For example, Brainbread is, even to this day, consistently in the top 20 downloads of the week at HL2Files.com, which is, quite interestingly, a major site in the FileFront network dedicated to Half-Life 2, not Half-Life. It has currently amasssed over 115,000 downloads on this site as well. As it was hand picked by Valve Software themselves to be listed in Steam, and it is one of the most popular Half-Life mods around, I believe that Brainbread is notable enough to keep. MarphyBlack 21:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

• You did not address any of my concerns regarding failing WP:V and WP:RS. Being listed at some mod sites does not make it meet WP's policies for verifiability.Wickethewok 22:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Steampowered is not just some mod site. It's Valve Software's official homepage for their Steam program. They made the site and they made the program. And they are also the ones that made Half-Life and Half-Life 2. If someone is playing Half-Life 2, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, etc, then they have Steam. Wouldn't the developers of the game that the mod is made for be considered reliable? It's not as if Valve is arbitrarily deciding that any mod made for one of their games is worthy enough to be officially listed through their own content distribution program. MarphyBlack 01:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - OF COURSE this mod exists, it's listed by Valve Software itself along with only a handful of other Half Life Mods, and steampowered.com is about as reliable and verifiable a source for the existence and notability of a half life mod as you're ever going to get. --Aim Here 01:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
• This fails WP:V#Burden_of_evidence which directly states "If an article topic has no reputable, reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on that topic." This does not have any reputable, reliable, third-party sources, thus, there should not be an article. Wickethewok 14:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Erm, you're wilfully ignoring what we've been saying about Valve Corporation and steampowered.com. Do a whois on steampowered.com, go to the damn website and knock yourself out, verification-wise. If you were half-smart you might have a go at challenging the notability of the mod, but the verifiability is a no-brainer. --Aim Here 17:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• I would like to mention that the listings on Steampowered contain little more than a couple sentence summary and links to the mod's website. While clearly it shows existence, almost all information in the article remains unverifiable without original research. But, yes, you are quite correct in stating that the notability of the mod has certainly not been proven. Wickethewok 18:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• You talk as if being officially recognized by Valve, quite possibly the most authoritative source around on the subject of Half-Life mods (they made the game, after all), is merely something to scoff at. Anyway, I think that you fail to grasp the concept at hand here. Valve is not simply just listing the mod on their site (although this in of itself is an exceptionally high honor), but they're actively helping to distribute the mod by directly advertising it through Steam. The same can only be said of about 20 or so other Half-Life mods.
• If you want more "reputable, reliable, third-party sources", Brainbread was also Mod of the Week (Or month, depending on how you look at it) at Planet Half-Life, a very notable, insanely well-known, and nearly definitive Half-Life news site run on the GameSpy network. If for some reason you wish to question PHL's notability, check Google's first result for a search of "Half-Life". MarphyBlack 22:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.