Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bra Boys

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 02:57, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bra boys

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions.

Non notable street gang jmd 00:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep - Useful information as the (predominantly 'Anglo') Bra Boys group are reportedly in discussions with the (predominantly 'Lebanese') Comancheros bikie gang in order to bring an end to the recent racial violence seen in Sydney
• Merge - It sounds to me like they're involved in this latest scuffle in Sydney, Australia over Muslim race relations. I say merge this into a relevant article on the rioting. --Cyde Weys _talk^contribs 01:30, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• keep - they're notable enough. See this SMH article, where they are involved in negotiations with Muslim leaders. Borofkin 01:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Verifiable and notable especially as some have blamed them for involvement in the rioting although they are denying it. 12,000 hits for Bra boys including the Sydney Morning Herald [1] 73 Google News hits for "Bra boys" see [2]

Even namechecked in "Surf's Up: The Girl's Guide to Surfing" see [3]. Capitalistroadster 02:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep - notable.--Russell E 02:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• ?? - I can't tell you why, but it just doesn't sit comfortably with me. I bet you could come up with 1,000+ Australian gang names if you tried hard enough. On the other hand, that their name is cited in various sources is irrefutable. Keep - after reading the latest edits to the article I've changed my mind - notable enough. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 10:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - the article is going to get a whole lot bigger in the next few days because of the riots. - G^t 05:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Lankiveil 06:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC).
• Keep sadly. I'd be glad never to hear of them again, but I'm not that optomistic. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:12, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Their significance is largely as an example of media hype. The article is unlikely to grow beyond a stub, based on the depth of media coverage despite the attention. --Zigger «º» 06:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the unsupported inflammatory allegation from the article. Had that allegation influenced any previous opinion here? --Zigger «º» 06:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Merge to the article on the riots. Won't be notable outside this context. Harro5 06:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - Dont merge - The Bra Boys 'involvment' in the riots are questionable --bacco007 06:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. The group/gang has been in the media a bit recently and I wanted to read about them but was disapointed that wikipedia didn't have an article. Australian Story ran a programme on Koby Abberton, the founder(?) of the group a few weeks ago. He is very famous in world surfing circles apparently but was charged with murder and manslaughter. He was recently acuitted of those charges but found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice (or perverting the coure of justice or something - don't quote me). Then, just this week, we're hearing about them again in the context of these events in Sydney. I think they are notable enough to have a TV documentary made about them, and are notable because of Koby Abberton's involvement. (There should probably be an article created about Koby Abberton too). -- Adz 06:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Koby was not the founder, and was not charged with murder and manslaughter. --Zigger «º» 07:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

His older brother was charged with murder of a founding member of the Bra Boys Anthony Hines and was later acquitted. Koby Abberton is being charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice see [4].

• Keep, should not be confused with the riots issue--A Y Arktos 07:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, although I'd really like to see it expanded somewhat. It still offers only a limited explanation of who they are and why they are important. It doesn't mention what they do (other than surf).--cj | talk 07:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per other votes; important enough to deserve an article though expansion is certainly required. - Wezzo 15:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Can anyone add some significance to the article, or perhaps it should be merged into Maroubra, New South Wales? --Zigger «º» 22:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep nn as of one week ago, but not anymore. Things change.Gator (talk) 22:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep This gang is well known, and is frequently mentioned in Sydney media. 203.9.33.2 07:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep* They're even pretty well known here in the USA.
• Keep I've been reading about the troubles back home and went Wikipedia to see who they are. reason enough to keep them. I have to agree that I was hoping to find out a lot more about them. I remember when I lived in sydney that the gangs in Maroubra had a fearsome rep. Steve
• Comment (again). I've expanded the article to list what they're famous for in Sydney, at least in the popular media. If others think this can be the basis of a bigger article, I'll butt out. Hopefully Australian beach and surfer articles can also be expanded. --Zigger «º»

• Keep Merge with Maroubra. Not only notable due to their "suspected" involvement in Cronulla, but have been part of Sydney culture for a long time. Most Sydneysiders would of heard of the Bra Boys at one point or another. In fact, easily the most famous gang in Sydney. Chanlord 14:33, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Please cite sources for any alleged involvement at Cronulla. For (unfortunately) more famous Sydney gangs, check out the "Milperra massacre". --Zigger «º» 15:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• "Hours earlier, about 200 men had assembled outside Lakemba Mosque - some armed with Glock pistols - and dozens more gathered at Campsie. They were preparing to travel to Maroubra Beach, where up to 300 locals, many armed with crowbars, waited for an arranged fight, according to "Bra Boys" at the beach."[5]

These events took place on Monday night and were heavily reported in the Sydney press. This was supposedly in retaliation for the events at Cronulla.

Sunny, Jai and Koby have made media appearances to contradict "supposed" involvement, as recently as yesterday's Daily Telegraph (14 Dec, pg 4). I doubt that the "Bra Boys" at the beach meant to suggest that a fight had been arranged by the group. This would be better discussed on the article's talk page, if anyone thinks it can be expanded beyond a stub. Should non-events be the basis of an article, despite excited media coverage? --Zigger «º» 23:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• Agreed. Bra Boys involved in Cronulla was non-existant and purely media hype. Perhaps an alternative can be to Merge the article with Maroubra, until such a time when more information is gathered about the gang. Amending vote Chanlord 01:24, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. They're not just another non-notable street gang. I had heard of them well before the last week's events. Dmharvey 01:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Very significant players in the 2005 Cronulla riots. Cnwb 04:11, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep notable gang. Sarah Ewart 01:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep They are widely known in Sydney. It has also been in the papers for the last week. Jmd, if you are living in Australia, you must be ignorant or have your eyes closed, hands over your ears and shouting "lalalala" at the top of your voice. If you are outside of Australia, don't try to delete stuff that is not pertinent to you.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.