Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bose Lifestyle Home Entertainment Family
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. This article reads too much like an advertisement, and if a new article is to be written, it's probably better to do it from scratch. --Coredesat 02:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Bose Lifestyle Home Entertainment Family
This is basically an ad. I can see an article on "home theater" and one on Bose itself, but why cover a particular company's home theater products? A previous AFD tried to delete a bunch of Bose-related articles and got "no consensus" after a very lengthy discussion. Brianyoumans 03:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- The previous AFD discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bose Headphone Family. --Brianyoumans 03:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, or complete rewrite -- subject is notable, but current version reads like a commercial. JPG-GR 03:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete, spam. Edeans 04:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Strong Keep This article passes WP:CORP so the deletion nomination is to be removed. Proof of this is listed below. here are the requirements as of WP:CORP
A product or service is notable if it meets any of the following criteria:
1) The product or service has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company itself.
- This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations except for the following:
- Media re-prints of press releases, other publications where the company or corporation talks about its products or services, and advertising for the product or service. Newspaper stories that do not credit a reporter or a news service and simply present company news in an uncritical or positive way may be treated as press releases unless there is evidence to the contrary.
- Works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as simple price listings in product catalogues.
- There are many references, here is a very list...
2) The product or service is so well-known that its trademark has suffered from genericization.
- I have found no evidence of this.
If the issue is because it has price listed well that doesn't seem to be that unusual inside of wikipedia. Here is an example, I'm going to quickly list Apple Computer articles that have prices included (and some even have Multiple different prices listed) IPod IPod mini IPod photo IPod shuffle IPod nano IPod Hi-Fi Apple Mighty Mouse Xserve RAID ISight Power Mac G5 Xserve MacBook Pro IMac Mac mini IBook MacBook. Hell if you go to Xbox_360#Retail_configurations & PlayStation 3#Release data and pricing they have an entire table dedicated to listing the prices by individual country. If you think that it needs editing then help wikipedia by editing the page -- UKPhoenix79 05:04, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Are you arguing that every product which is reviewed by places like CNET should get an article? They review thousands of products. I think it is arguable that a particular product should be covered only if it is particularly iconic and unique - the iPod, for instance - and certain Bose products might qualify. This, on the other hand, is just a line of home theater setups, of which there are many. Is this stuff so unique and different that it needs an article? And yes, you are right, there is lots of "Applecruft", and some of it should be removed - not all Apple products are notable. --Brianyoumans 05:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well no, if that was the only place you might have a point, but if you were to check out google "bose lifestyle review" you will see that there are 740,000 pages on the net that meet this criteria. I just gave a small snippet of them. There is also pcmag.com howstuffworks.com audioreview.com reviewcentre.com vanns.com pocket-lint.co.uk (weird name but an actual review cite) consumerguide.com reviewcentre.com etc... etc... There are many more but it is better to use the google link to see for yourself. -- UKPhoenix79 08:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- I can find 78,000 reviews of the Hoover FloorMate vacuum cleaner. Does that need an article? This is a commercial product, there are going to be reviews out there. Why makes this particularly unique that one can't simply cover it in a line or two in the Bose article? Wikipedia is not a directory, nor is it a product catalog. --Brianyoumans 09:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- There are almost 10 times as many reviews out there for these systems... I think that does say something in itself! -- UKPhoenix79 10:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Are you arguing that every product which is reviewed by places like CNET should get an article? They review thousands of products. I think it is arguable that a particular product should be covered only if it is particularly iconic and unique - the iPod, for instance - and certain Bose products might qualify. This, on the other hand, is just a line of home theater setups, of which there are many. Is this stuff so unique and different that it needs an article? And yes, you are right, there is lots of "Applecruft", and some of it should be removed - not all Apple products are notable. --Brianyoumans 05:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete having a PR department to generate product reviews does not make a product notable. Where is the press stating that this product had a cultural impact such as Ipod?-MsHyde 17:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- So only the iPod and the walkman should be listed, since it had a "cultural impact"? That is not the official stance from wikipedia where it states that, if it is "the subject of multiple non-trivial, reliable published works whose source is independent of the organization itself, and fulfills the verifiability guidelines, then it is considered notable." -- UKPhoenix79 20:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- The notability guidelines are guidelines, not rules, and the "multiple non-trivial, reliable published works" part in particular should, I feel, frequently be ignored. It works best as a minimal requirement. I'm sure I can find multiple independent and reliable reviews of quite literally thousands of products. We have to use our common sense here. I think the rough criteria should involve the number of people this product impacts, the uniqueness of the product, the cultural impact, and such. I would be far more impressed with a news article about how these Bose products have changed people's lives. --Brianyoumans 21:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think that you can even say that an iPod did that. Going with your criteria I believe that only medical or human assisting technology's could qualify. Its not like a iPod could cause someone to breath like an Iron lung, or an entertainment system allowed someone to walk again! Notability is why we have HP LaserJet 2400, Dell n Series, Dell Inspiron, HP series 80, Macromedia JRun, Sony HDR-FX7, Adobe Creative Suite etc, etc... and this was only after a quick search! None of which could pass your high standards but none that should be removed. -- UKPhoenix79 08:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- I completely agree with you that most of those should not have Wikipedia articles. The Dell n Series might be notable due to not shipping with Windows. I feel quite certain that the iPod could pass the test I suggested; there have been any number of articles on its social, cultural, and business impact. I also think certain products could pass just due to the ubiquity of their advertising; the Bose "Wave" for instance - what human being in the US has NOT seen one of their magazine ads? OK, some haven't, but a minority, I'm sure... --Brianyoumans 09:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well my point was that they shouldn't be deleted, but thats besides the case. I also think that the Wave systems should have an article but how can they pass with your criteria of life changing products? Now the main reason for this article is to make sure that the official Bose company page is not too large. Because if this was removed they would have to be placed in the main page and just clutter it up. To alleviate this an article was made. This is not an uncommon practice and due to the several 100's of thousands of reviews available on the net I don't think this is too uncalled for. -- UKPhoenix79 09:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't say that a product needed to be life-changing to have an article, I said I would be more impressed with that sort of thing than with reviews. I also disagree that this would add too much content to the Bose article, primarily because I don't see any actual useful content. What should be kept? The pricing? The information about what module does what? I can boil this down to one sentence: Bose also sells home theatre systems which use their ADAPTiQ audio calibration system. That's it, you're done. That's all the encyclopedaic content I see here. --Brianyoumans 18:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- Well my point was that they shouldn't be deleted, but thats besides the case. I also think that the Wave systems should have an article but how can they pass with your criteria of life changing products? Now the main reason for this article is to make sure that the official Bose company page is not too large. Because if this was removed they would have to be placed in the main page and just clutter it up. To alleviate this an article was made. This is not an uncommon practice and due to the several 100's of thousands of reviews available on the net I don't think this is too uncalled for. -- UKPhoenix79 09:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- I completely agree with you that most of those should not have Wikipedia articles. The Dell n Series might be notable due to not shipping with Windows. I feel quite certain that the iPod could pass the test I suggested; there have been any number of articles on its social, cultural, and business impact. I also think certain products could pass just due to the ubiquity of their advertising; the Bose "Wave" for instance - what human being in the US has NOT seen one of their magazine ads? OK, some haven't, but a minority, I'm sure... --Brianyoumans 09:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think that you can even say that an iPod did that. Going with your criteria I believe that only medical or human assisting technology's could qualify. Its not like a iPod could cause someone to breath like an Iron lung, or an entertainment system allowed someone to walk again! Notability is why we have HP LaserJet 2400, Dell n Series, Dell Inspiron, HP series 80, Macromedia JRun, Sony HDR-FX7, Adobe Creative Suite etc, etc... and this was only after a quick search! None of which could pass your high standards but none that should be removed. -- UKPhoenix79 08:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- The notability guidelines are guidelines, not rules, and the "multiple non-trivial, reliable published works" part in particular should, I feel, frequently be ignored. It works best as a minimal requirement. I'm sure I can find multiple independent and reliable reviews of quite literally thousands of products. We have to use our common sense here. I think the rough criteria should involve the number of people this product impacts, the uniqueness of the product, the cultural impact, and such. I would be far more impressed with a news article about how these Bose products have changed people's lives. --Brianyoumans 21:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- So only the iPod and the walkman should be listed, since it had a "cultural impact"? That is not the official stance from wikipedia where it states that, if it is "the subject of multiple non-trivial, reliable published works whose source is independent of the organization itself, and fulfills the verifiability guidelines, then it is considered notable." -- UKPhoenix79 20:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. It's an ad: they even mention "free shipping". This is the kind of stuff that makes people think we're not a real encyclopedia; the information belongs on the company website. WMMartin 06:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- That is a 6 word line that looks like an after thought. So it doesn't really need to be there. But it is NOT talking about the systems but Bose stores and refurbished units in general. -- UKPhoenix79 08:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- delete because it is after all just an individual group of products and can be adequately covered in the article for the company, etc. Of the references used above to show independent notability, the Google Books one was a list of books that discussed audio systems in general.DGG 05:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- Delete as the article is now. It's like an ad. Should we have article on every Kenmore fridge model? - grubber 19:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- Keep If it is noticeable it should be kept but edited to remove content thought to be ads.--64.240.163.221 23:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
