Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bonza bottler day

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 12:30, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bonza bottler day

Made-up holiday with no reliable sources worth speaking of. Was Prod'ed, but tag removed with the addition of references equally problematic. Chase's Calendar of Events 2001? A directory of 12,000 "special events" used by radio djs and the like to have something to read over the morning news. [1] Getting an entry doesn't seem to require the least bit of editorial oversight -- the point of the "reliable" in "reliable sources" -- you can even submit an entry online The newspaper mentions? Stories about Chase's, presumably mentioning the so-called holiday. Calton | Talk 22:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete It's a web thing without legs. Maybe in another ten years this will really take off. I doubt it. But Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball anyway. Rklawton 23:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Do not Delete It's a known day however it is not a holiday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.127.103.17 (talk • contribs) 19:39, August 8, 2006
• Delete - secondary sources quoting a primary unreliable source don't count any more than the unreliable source did in the first place. In addition the primary source would seem to be more or less self-published so the whole article fails WP:OR.

You might also want to nominate Elaine Fremont and Gail Berger as they seem to be spin-offs Yomangani 23:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• That sounds very reasonable. I've added both Elaine and Gail to this AfD (below). I probably did it wrong, but it seems a reasonable approach. Rklawton 00:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  Looks like you did it correctly Yomangani 00:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete As I will post momentarily and in greater detail on Talk:Bonza bottler day, Bonza Bottler Day is not a “so-called holiday,” a “web thing without legs” or a hoax. Regardless of whether one views it as frivolous or otherwise, the references, external links, and even commentary at [Talk:Bonza bottler day] and on this page (i.e., Nojybles’ submission, below) evidence Bonza Bottler Day as an actual – not virtual – occasion that is acknowledged and celebrated in the USA and abroad via live events, radio broadcasts, and virtual and online media of various forms. Disdain for the quality of “special events” such as Bonza Bottler Day that are listed in Chase's Calendar of Events, and for the people and purposes that rely upon that resource, does not diminish the fact that Chase's Calendar of Eventshas been endorsed by sources that Wikipedia describes in [Reliable Sources] as “likely to be reliable, and [which] are regarded as reputable sources for the purposes of Wikipedia”. Here are some such endorsements:

"The definitive guide to all holidays and anniversaries." --[Wall Street Journal] / "In its diversity and inclusiveness, [Chase's] is an exhaustive guide to the country's ideals and passions." --[Post] / "I'm a big fan of Chase's Calendar of Events!" --[Al Roker, "Today" / "The bible of special occasions." - [New York Times] / ["[The bible of holidays." Jeffry Scott, Atlanta Journal-Constitution]] / ["[Should be on standing order in every library." Reference and User Services Quarterly]].

.In his endorsement to delete the article (above), Calton acknowledges the existence of newspaper articles that cite Bonza Bottler Day (and the fact that he hasn't read them because they reference Chase's Calendar of Events.) However those articles, one should note, were published in media outlets that meet Wikipidia’s [Reliable Sources] guidelines.

•It is worth mentioning that my interest in Bonza Bottler Day is more than frivolous. I frequently use the history, purpose and uses of the event as a case study when teaching university courses at the college and undergraduate levels, professional seminars, and educational talk shows about business and public affairs, and in articles that – although published in blogs – have been cited elsewhere and elicited favorable - in some cases, grateful - responses. Some respondents were already familiar with the holiday and enjoyed reading about it; some of those people appreciated learning about implications or details that they were previously unaware of; and other respondents enjoyed learning about the holiday for the first time. Please note also that, despite the existence of greeting cards and a variety of directories, almanacs, calendars, and written and online media about Bonza Bottler Day, Wikipedia:Bonza Bottler Day was the source for the “Best Answer - Chosen by Asker” when an Australian submitted a copy of the article in response the Ask Yahoo! question: [[2]] and here [What is Bonza Bottler Day?]. Is that not one of the purposes for which Wikipedia was created?-Lisatolliver 04:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

• • In a word, No. Please see WP:NOT for a nice essay on what Wikipedia is not. Rklawton 04:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Calton acknowledges the existence of newspaper articles that cite Bonza Bottler Day NO, Calton acknowledges the inserted newspaper references, and notes that from the headlines that they are obviously NOT about this so-called Bonza Bottler Day but about Chase's Calendar of Events -- meaning that as references they fail the "non-trivial" test, no matter how much respectability you try to attach to the sources. And given the ludicrously low standards for submission and inclusion in Chase's, they're not up to the "reliable source" standard -- no matter how much quoting of their ad copy you do. --Calton | Talk 05:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Oh, lots of reliable sources publish utter trivia from time to time, there's nothing unusual about that. Trivia published reliably is still trivia and not really worth noting in an encyclopedia that is decidedly not about trivia (see WP:NOT). The dearth of Google hits is truly telling for a "national" holiday. I get that many hits for my favorite local Jazz singer (who also doesn't yet rate an article). Rklawton 06:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I frequently use the history, purpose and uses of the event as a case study when teaching university courses at the college and undergraduate levels, professional seminars... Let me be blunt: prove it. Let's start with the names and places of these courses and some evidence of inclusion in curricula, names and places of these professional seminars and evidence of inclusion, names and dates of media appearances and evidence of inclusion, etc. --Calton | Talk 05:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
• Do Not Delete As for the holiday being "made-up," I concur with Joe Kress' response to the issue at [Talk:Bonza Bottler Day]: "Of course this is an made-up 'holiday' or, more correctly, an event as the article itself implies, but all holidays were once made-up." -Lisatolliver 05:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
  • That is a bit of absurd word-twisting that is too laughable to bother addressing. --Calton | Talk 05:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Nominating Elaine Fremont and Gail Berger as part of this process since their only claim to notability is Bonza bottler day. If "Bonza bottler day" is kept, we should also discuss merging the creator's articles with this one. Rklawton 00:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete all three (per my own nomination above) (else merge creators). Rklawton 00:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all per nom. Yomangani 00:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Addendum: also delete the two additions, per User:Rklawton (just being sure my view on those two is clear). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Calton (talk • contribs)
• Delete em all. The only reference I can find to this is in the Instructor of 1995 which "Advises teachers to celebrate with their students Bonza Bottler Day, an Australian Groundhog Day celebrated each month on the day that is the same number as the month." I can find no references to this occasion in the Australian media nor have I heard of it before. Capitalistroadster 03:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 03:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Why? The article says this holiday is observed in the U.S. Rklawton 03:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • It also claims that it was named by an Australian. Uncle G 13:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all; a holiday contrived for the sake of being a holiday. Marginalia 20:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
• Do Not Delete the holiday. I personally learned of this holiday reading Wikipedia this past March... Since I have celebrated every applicable month with my coworkers, as the tradition dictates. Whether you may like it or not, the existence of the page may have created or inceased awareness of the holiday, actually making it one. As for the claims of creation, if they are baseles, delete them. User:Nojybles 02:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC) User's only edit
  • If Wikipedia is responsible for creating or increasing awareness, then it pretty much says it wasn't notable enough to appear in the first place, doesn't it? --Calton | Talk 02:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I understand and share your concern. However, I first learned about Bonza Bottler Day several years ago when conducting research in support of a marketing course I was developing and associated radio broadcast. Further investigation unearthed a number of articles, almanacs, calendars and even greeting card sites that referenced the holiday, its founder and its sponsor. Subsequently, other people who have heard/read my discussions about the holiday have furnished additional sources and references. I thought it would be appropriate to compile that information in Wikipedia.--Lisatolliver 04:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I understand and share your concern. No, you don't, or else you might have started off with some actual evidence that met basic verifiabilty standards, instead of the flimsy blog references you started with and wikilawyering handwaving you've resorted to. --Calton | Talk 05:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

As a newbie on Wikipedia I have addressed the Bonza Bottler Day deletion and now wish to do the same with Elaine Fremont. As I knew Elaine but lost touch with her over the years, I was glad to find a reference using her name. I originally read of her holiday and it's title in our local paper but also learned of Elaine's death from an automobile accident. Consequently, I was so shaken by her passing that I forgot the title. I recently searched on the web and was able to find reference and the information that I sought. Therefore, I request that this information remain for others to locate and understand the history and purpose of the holiday. I feel I should add, Elaine was a friend from church - not a friend of a friend or any of the sort. A real, flesh and blood, lovely girl that Lisa Tolliver has referenced and whom I personally knew. Elaine had a great sense of humor and would probably be laughing at Carlton's blunt and callous desire to eliminate something that he/she obviously has difficulty in understanding. Lighten up - smile - enjoy life and next month - celebrate Sept. 9 / Bonza Bottler Day with a box of cookies and surprise the office with a smile! --DKnebel 03:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC) User's third edit -- the first two being to Talk:Bonza bottler day

I recently searched on the web and was able to find reference and the information that I sought. Free "callous" advice: that means this article doesn't belong here. Wikipedia is not a publicity service or promotional vehicle: its intent is to record stuff that already has notability, import, and -- most importantly -- verification. Frankly, I find your clumsy attempt at emotional manipulation grotesque. --Calton | Talk 04:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as non-notable, as is usually the case in AfDs that generate that sort of lengthy "keep" rationales. Sandstein 16:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
• Do Not Delete - The current hard copy edition of Chase's indicates that Bonza Bottler Day is trademarked. The fact that the trademark is not in the Library of Congress federal trademarks index indicates that it is trademarked in one of the 50 states. I have sent an inquiry to the holiday's sponsor to inquire which state it is trademarked in, since a link to the listing in the relevant state trademark database provides another reliable source. A reliable source that has already been provided is the reference by Steve Clark, [whose article in the Richmond Times-Dispatch] does not rely upon Chase's and is published in a reputable newspaper. Additionally, the Bonza Bottler Day article info box types the holiday "[Humorous observances]" and the article is internally linked to [Hallmark holiday]. That seems appropriate.

Several issues seem inappropriate and inconsistent about this entire discussion. ONE: Bonza bottler day lists more external links and references - including those above which are reliable - than multiple Wikipedia [Humorous observances] and [Hallmark holiday] articles that have neither been marked as Afd nor the subjected to heated contraversy such as this. Consistency with regard to RELIABILITY OF SOURCES would dictate that the those become Afd too. TWO: Consistency with regard to NOTABILITY would dictate that ALL [Humorous observances] and some [Hallmark holiday]s be deleted or that Bonza Bottler Day not be deleted.199.97.121.99 20:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Let's review this others and create separate AfD's for them, too. Rklawton 20:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete this and all other [Humorous observances]. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 22:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete I can't even get to the references – they're all behind some kind of registration firewall. This and the other "funny holiday" articles should go. Until today, I didn't even know any of them existed excluding April Fool's Day (not that I'm some kind of notability barometer - I'm just saying). Not to denigrate Bonza Bottler day observers to whom I'm sure this is important, but every day is bound to be some kind of "Third Tuesday in April Day" or "National Underarm Deodorant Day" or something. Besides, tomorrow could be "National Toenail Clipping Day" in the U.S. while it's some other kind of "official" or humorous day in every other country around the globe. 120 countries with 120 different "official" days for any given calendar day, multiplied by 365? I think it's ridiculous and unachievable to include all of them or to even make the attempt. Baseball,Baby! ^{balls•strikes} 01:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nonsense.--Peta 06:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.