Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black concert T-shirt

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus with no prejudice towards later deletion. The number one problem with this article was really only mentioned by one supporter of deleting the article, which is WP:V and WP:RS. The one source referenced in the article hardly counts. The notability of the subject is also a potential issue, although one that is directly related to WP:V—if adequate verification can be provided, it is likely that the notability issue will also be addressed. I see that there has been some effort towards finding references as discussed on the article's talk page. As there is active effort with some promise of being fruitful on fixing the primary issue with the article, I'm closing this now as no consensus. If the article is not cleaned up and sourced within a month, I recommend relisting it. —Doug Bell ^talk 09:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black concert T-shirt

Black concert T-shirt (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Non-encyclopedic Frater Xyzzy 18:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. This is just a color of shirts sometimes given out on concerts, not a fashion. Highly non-notable and non-encyclopedic. Michaelas10 (Talk) 18:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per User:Michaelas10, and the sole reference provided is just mentions that a black T-shirt is available at this one particular concert. -- Whpq 20:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete We don't even have an article called Concert T-shirt so I don't see how we could have a fork about a particular color they come in. Dina 21:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete: I look forward to the next exciting instalment of clothes that come in different colours, what's next, yellow trousers ? Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 22:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, but move to concert t-shirt. The title is indeed inapropriate, and the article itself mentions that there are other colours. I think that everyone agrees that most bands sell T-shirts during their tours (black or otherwise); therefore how is it non-notable? It is a source of income for bands, a common type of clothing for music fans (there is a section about this type of clothing on the heavy metal fashion article for example). I agree that there are reasons to delete this article, but non-encyclopedic is not one of them. In fact, non-encyclopedic does not correspond to any policy that I know of, and therefore is never a reason for deletion. I would be very grateful to the nominator (or anyone else) to take a look at Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Problem articles where deletion may be needed and provide a more suitable reason for deletion. I would also like people to assume good faith from the creators of this article (I'm not one of them) and keep the use of unnecessary sarcasm to themselves. It is particularly unhelpful and "non-encyclopedic" in an AFD (or elsewhere in wikipedia for that matter). IronChris | (talk) 23:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: More discussion is available on the [talk page] --Mattarata 15:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep: Article was nominated for deletion due to un-encyclopedic nature. This is very clearly a fashion trend, of which there are thousands of other wikipedia articles. Fashion trends that are written about in news papers and magazines are clearly encyclopedic. The specific black color is probably the most common, or commonly thought of, color for rock concert T's, which is why the article is so titled. The black color is a trend by itself separate from concert T's in general. There are now 3 different references. Having a main article called Concert T-shirt is not required for this article to exist. What this article needs most is more content and references specifically written about the topic rather than just mentioning the topic. --Mattarata 15:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, absolute rubbish Adequately covered elsewhere. Deizio talk 17:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Would you mind expanding a little? I mean, right now no one who voted "delete" has cited a policy or guideline that this article offends (apart from non-notable, which is clearly not the case). Thanks, IronChris | (talk) 17:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It's about as notable as "Breathable oxygen is something enjoyed by many humans". Maybe a section in T-shirt or Heavy metal fashion. Not an article. Deizio talk 17:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there is already a section in both those articles about this item. It seems to me that if two seperate articles need to mention it then it's notable, right? Otherwise it wouldn't be mentionned anywhere else, and definitely not have a whole section in both cases. What's more, take a look at rocker jacket and kutte. Why are these clothing items more notable? Neither of them even has a single reference, whereas this article has one and two external links. However, as mentionned on the talk page of this article, I support moving this to a broader title, like band T-shirt (which is at least as notable as a torn denim jacket with patches, cf kutte). IronChris | (talk) 18:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The other articles aren't up for debate here. This can be more than adequately represented in the existing articles which keeps all the information in one place, rather than forked into an unnecessary article called "Black concert T-shirt". Chris, I love your work, I think this is about all I have to say on this one. Deizio talk 18:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I compiled some more research which i listed on Talk:Black_concert_T-shirt. Hopefully these references, pulled from published news sources, will sway the opinion of those who think the term is made up or otherwise not notable on its own. There are a ton more references in blogs and other less reliable sources which I didn't include. --Mattarata 01:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep: a black concert t-shirt is not just a fad... it's an identifier for an entire subculture... though i'm personally not a fan of these t-shirts, or the people in them, it's my npov that they ARE a cultural phenomenon, of sorts. so shoot me.

--Yufeeko 17:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep: earlier someone mentioned 'The other articles aren't up for debate here' exactly they are not and are a similar type of item. They exist. They are a subculture. Which there are PLENTY of on wiki. Wiki's not paper. The article could use some details etc but the article does and should exist.--Xiahou 00:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Black concert T-shirts are an important part of metal culture in many parts of the world. I see no reason why this article should be deleted; it is a valid topic, and an important resource to many, regardless of whether you wear them, hate them, or study them. romarin [talk ] 05:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep or merge to heavy metal fashion. Certainly notable enough as a worldwide subculture phenomenon involving millions of people. Multiple references can be easilly found as proved on the talk page. Prolog 19:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.