Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black Squirrel Radio

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep While WP:CRAP generally isn't a good argument, the fact that over 300 other college stations exists is---Category:College radio stations in the United States.Balloonman (talk) 06:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black Squirrel Radio

Black Squirrel Radio (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested speedy undeleted and brought to AFD. Was originally deleted for not asserting notability per WP:WEB (it is an internet radio station). This is a procedural nomination, I have no opinion. Coredesat 05:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep. This is a college radio station at Kent State University that has been on the air since the 1930s. They changed their name in the mid 1990s and have over 24,000 hits on Google under their new name and who knows how many media references under their old name. You might even find some notable DJs who cut their teeth there. 199.125.109.68 05:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
    Disregard the comment made by 199.125.109.68 it is the ip of the creator and all he has beeen doing lately is casuing trouble. Yourname 00:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    • What? I have no relation to the creator, you have no reason to be so assuming. If you check my edits you will see that I have contributed over 500 edits to over 100 articles, and none were done other than to improve the articles. You really need to lighten up and assume good faith. The creator on the other hand, is a new editor who has done very few edits and needs to be helped and encouraged. 199.125.109.50 16:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Needs sourcing but should be salvageable. As it stands is a CSD A7, but I'm sure it can be improved so that it isn't. No more bongos 06:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete either as NN-web or NN-group, depending on one's point of view. Definitely no claims of notability in the article. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. [1] - This level of scholarly documentation, along with references in at least 35 news articles and approximately 24,200 Google hits indicates sufficient notability. EFindlicher 15:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
    • That's Kent's own website, hardly a secondary source, much less a reliable secondary source. And while Google hits are mostly irrelevant to such discussions, since you mentioned it I get 87 unique Google hits for "Black Squirrel Radio" in quotes. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Discrediting anything from Kent State's website as a source is not a valid argument; Kent State is a community of over 30,000 students and faculty; there are several media outlets at Kent State that operate as (as much as is possible) unbiased news sources and are not controlled or censored by the university administration or faculty. These include the Daily Kent Stater, TV-2 & Black Squirrel Radio. Being that Kent State is the intended market for the station, it is unlikely you will find large amounts of scholarly research and news coverage on it outside of this community. On wikipedia, Daily Kent Stater currently redirects to Kent State's page, where it has a paragraph under the Student Media section. If not considered worthy of its own article, at the very least it should be merged into Kent State's page. EFindlicher 16:24, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
      • "...it is unlikely you will find large amounts of scholarly research and news coverage on it outside of this community." Thank you, that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter as well. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
      • I would contest that this is true of any radio station, even broadcast stations; they are by their nature regional phenomena, but that does not make them without notability. The community or Kent State students, faculty & alumni totals over 200,000 people. EFindlicher 16:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge to Kent State University as suggested above - not enough individual notability for its own article. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Merging would not be a good idea. Articles get too long as they are and adding details about the school radio station is not a good idea. 199.125.109.50 16:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete and lock to prevent from being recreated NN a7 also i think there also trying to promote their site here! Yourname 00:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I was creator of this article. I am not, and have never been an employee at Black Squirrel Radio. I am a Kent State alumnus, and was a student at the university when the name change occurred, but my point in creating this article was not to promote their website... I'm seeing already that this kind of knee-jerk accusation happens far too often. I hoped to contribute an article about something I felt was culturally and historically significant in the realm of college radio, but I quickly tire of this sort of garbage. I was the one who initially suggested the merge into the Kent State University article, where it could live alongside the Daily Kent Stater and TV-2, its print and television counterparts at the university. Do what you will, I no longer care. EFindlicher 00:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I asked that it not be deleted. I have no relationship whatsoever to BSR or Kent State. I would ask that reviewers compare with other Category:College radio stations in the United States. My own college radio station (one of the 315 in the category), for example, cites absolutely no references other than radio-locator. Most that I checked were stubs with no references. See for example WRGW. To single out BSR as not notable would be vindictive and wrong. The proposer that it be deleted, Yourname, really needs to lighten up and find another ax to grind. 199.125.109.50 16:22, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Another Comment - Could people please try and handle AFD in a polite and constructive way. Please try to assume good faith and talk about the article rather than commenting on each other. That applies to both of you. I am Abstaining since I don't know enough about the subject, but it would be useful if people could try and find some reliable sources rather than snapping at each other. No more bongos 17:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy Delete NN-web or NN-group, no claims of notability in the article. 68.49.67.157 03:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per 68.49.67.157. Dangledorf 18:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CitiCat ♫ 01:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand Don't merge. Add references. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 02:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep Heritage and details provided support a claim of notability. Article needs cleanup and would benefit from additional sources, all of which could have been accomplished with one of many tags designed for just such purpose. Alansohn 02:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete The article has claims to origin in 1949 as well as origin in the 1930's, so they should get their story straight. This apparently never was a licensed broadcast station, but rather a college hobby effort or a class assignment. Non-licensed hobby broadcast operations have generally not been found to satisfy WP:N. It lacks either evidence of FCC licensing or of multiple reliable and independent sources with substantial coverage. Edison 03:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with Kent State. Majoreditor 03:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge: And redirect the page to the appropriate section at Kent State University. - Rjd0060 04:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with Kent State University. Doesn't need it's own article as it doesn't seem to be notable for anything other than being owned by Kent State. — Save_Us_229 06:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect and Merge to Kent_state#Student_media. Thought it might be notable from the comments above but the lineage isn't as clear as suggested. Seems to be a recent online radio setup that isn't even mentioned in the main Kent State article. The 1930s radio station might be a more notable candidate for an article. MLA 12:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It's the same radio station over the years. It currently has 100 DJs. They changed their name a few years ago, but nothing else changed. I just don't see that there is any minimum length to articles, but I do see that merging this with KSU will make that article unnecessarily long. This AFD is a formality, because someone mistakenly asked that BSR be deleted, what do you plan on doing with the other 400 college radio station articles? Take a look at any of them.[2] Why should BSR be treated any differently. Let them have their article. I wouldn't want anyone to delete my college radio station, which is barely different from the coverage of BSR, and actually has less references. 199.125.109.50 23:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Redirect and Merge to Kent State University...Because of the station's age and the college it is affiliated with, it is somewhat notable, but it should be included in the Kent State page proper Doc Strange 14:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.