Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Birchview Elementary School (Plymouth, Minnesota)

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep, no consensus. —WikiFanatic 04:48, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Birchview Elementary School moved to Birchview Elementary School (Plymouth, Minnesota)

NN ankle biter farm, article far below WP standards Pete.Hurd 02:37, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the article is a hoax, no indication of the putative school's location, the write-up suggests the editor intends the article to be humourous, ironic, or some such thing. School cannot be verified. Recommend delete Pete.Hurd 02:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete and possibly contact the administration of Wayzata High School in Marion, Minnesota per the anonymous user's history. This is a high school student so it's not appropriate to repeat here, but I think you'll find the vandal's name. Durova 05:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: hoax? "putative school"? "cannot be verified"? When I did a Google search on the term "Birchview", this school in Plymouth, MN was the third item on the search result. See this. The article isn't much, but to call the author a vandal is a huge stretch. Please assume good faith and don't bite the newbies! -- DS1953 06:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Durova's "vandal" comment may refer to vandalism to Natural selection which was comitted by the same IP as the creator of this article. I found this article by checking up the contributions of that IP after reverting that vandalism. Enough time passed between the two events that I would not necessarily assume they were by the same person. Pete.Hurd 07:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Check the page history at Wayzata High School, which was altered from the same IP address on the same day this article was created. Especially note the text inserted and the comment by the person who cleaned up afterward. Durova 08:45, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Since when is adding a reference to Marion Barber III, a rookie running back for the Dallas Cowboys (and who graduated from the high school) vandalism? [1]? Please assume good faith. -- DS1953 21:05, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Right you are. Point withdrawn. This returns us to the puzzle of which Birchview Elementary School this might be. Durova 23:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. This is not an article, it is a biased review of the school. The article even fails to define its location, so we cannot tell whether it is about the school in Plymouth, Minnesota, Macon, Missouri, Ishpeming, Michigan or some other place. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete failing NPOV, too. NSLE (讨论+extra) 09:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
    Weak keep after rewrite. NSLE (T+C+CVU) 04:39, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep - rewrote article. Its obviously the one in Plymouth, Minnesota - since thats next to Wayzata High School lol. Its an actual school, and our policy on schools is that, for the most part, we keep them. Oh, I only did a stub for the article though. Mind you, since there's more than one school with the same name, perhaps we can disambig the page. That makes it MORE NOTABLE not less. Zordrac 10:08, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
I was not aware that it was WP policy to keep all school articles. Can you point me to this? Pete.Hurd 15:59, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
See WP:SCH and also the notes at the top of this page. "Schools are generally kept as policy". Generally, of course, doesn't mean always. This may be an exception. It is not quite a definite policy yet. Zordrac 20:30, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Where is that statement? It certainly is not policy, and it isn't at the top of any page I'm looking at right now. Chris talk back 18:41, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per nomination. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 10:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete as empty: It's a predicate nominative now that it's verifiable. A fact is not an article, and before someone says "improve it," improving at this point is functionally no different from "write it from scratch," except that it means carrying a vandal attack in the edit history. Geogre 12:29, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Nn school Catchpole 13:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • delete per george accept i dont know what is a predicit nominitive is but it sound reely BAD so i say deth to predicit nomintives!!!!!!! Furfy
  • Delete. Short of being the site of a signficant event I fail to see how any elementary school can be notable. --StuffOfInterest 16:07, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep all schools. Please participate at WP:SCH instead of nominating schools for fruitless no-consensus defacto keep votes. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Please read the article I nominated [2] and tell me again why you think such a thing should not be nominated for AfD! Pete.Hurd 16:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
{sofixit}. List it for cleanup at Schoolwatch. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
So all school articles belong to a magical subset of articles in which no lower bounds of quality exist? They can never be bad enough to merit deletion? All that verbiage about "don't take it personally" and how AfD is a constructive process in the AfD literature just doesn't apply to the magical category of schools? I'm not going to {sofixit}, I spend far too much time working on topics of actual encyclopedic value as it is. Pete.Hurd 17:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep Hipocrite - «Talk» 17:11, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
In other words, "yes". School articles have a unique set of standards. Pete.Hurd 17:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
How exactly is "Keep all schools" a fruitful vote? — Haeleth Talk
Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep Hipocrite - «Talk» 21:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. BlankVerse 18:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge and Delete, this school is below the threshold established at WP:SCH.Gateman1997 19:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
    • That is not the remedy to stubs provided by the WP:SCH proposal. Hipocrite - «Talk» 19:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
      • How so? The proposal says 3 or more verifiable sentences. This article does not meet that criteron or any other being discussed. It should be merged per the proposal.Gateman1997 20:14, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
        • And redirected. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
          • Yes, after it's been merged and deleted.Gateman1997 20:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
            • The history of the redirecting article is to be maintained. Hipocrite - «Talk» 20:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
              • Is that policy, to keep the history?Gateman1997 20:49, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
                • It's standard practice. More to the point, it's simpler to keep the history than to delete it, so what's the point of going to any extra effort? — Haeleth Talk 21:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
                  • Point taken. I suppose in the long run too when someone does get the urge to write an actual article about this school too it makes it a tad easier to rewrite it. Granted I'd rather history be gone, but that is secondary in my mind to the merge so *shrug*.Gateman1997 21:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
                    • I don't think the normal GFDL attribution requirement applies here. We're not using the text of the school article, we're just adding a mention of the school to the district. Simple facts, like a school name, by themselves, aren't copyrightable (as far as I know). There's really no text in the school article to move anyhow (for instance my sentence saying the school is part of the district would obviously not be used in the district article). So, I think the issue of preserving history here is not signficant, and I would be fine either way. Before a copyright holder can complain their GFDL-rights were violated (through lack of attribution), they actually have to show that copyrightable/copyrighted work was actually copied, in my non-lawyered opinion. So, I think what's done with the old history is a minor issue, that can go either way. --Rob 05:31, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge this substub with the school district article, unless someone steps in to add a good dollop of facts verifiable from secondary sources. (This is the position I signed up to at WP:SCH. Anyone who hasn't participated in that debate yet, get over there, find out what's being proposed, and make your voice heard!) — Haeleth Talk 21:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. -- Dalbury(Talk) 22:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge to Wayzata School District per WP:SCH (I dislike the proposal partly for assuming all schools are a part of a simple small school districts, but this school actually is). --Rob 04:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Unless the lack of credible sources is remedied, this appears to violate Wikipedia:Verifiability--redstucco 11:08, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete unverifiable and not notable.  Grue  16:47, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge or delete. Useless in its current state. Please do not under any circumstances use this to create a no consensus verdict. --Celestianpower hablamé 18:06, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Fails WP:V as it does not have at least two WP:RS cited. Chris talk back 18:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, article is sourced, notable topic. Christopher Parham (talk) 23:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Notable in what way? As for the article being sourced, it's not hard to source one sentence. Chris talk back 23:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
      • Notable as an important educational institution serving Plymouth, Minnesota and a significant institution of the local government. Christopher Parham (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
        • Okay, but please answer the question that was asked: notable in what way? Chris talk back 00:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
          • See above, the sentence beginning "notable as," although I'm not sure how you missed it. Christopher Parham (talk) 00:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
            • I see that sentence, however, it doesn't actually state why the school is notable among the millions of schools worldwide such that it merits its own article in a general encyclopaedia. Chris talk back 01:03, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
              • Once again, it is notable among the millions of schools worldwide because out of those schools, Birchview is among the rare few that are important educational institutions serving Plymouth, Minnesota. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
                • Why does the fact that it serves Plymouth, Minnesota make it so much more notable than other schools that it merits its own article in a general encyclopaedia? Chris talk back 01:27, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
                  • If you make the pond small enough, then anybody (or any school) can be a big frog. -- Dalbury(Talk) 01:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
                  • Why would it have to be "more notable than other schools"? We're writing an encyclopedia, not hosting some sort of twisted notability competition. Virtually all schools are notable, and there's no contradiction there. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:36, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
                    • Every time I see someone say something like "We're writing an encyclopedia", I smell a fallacy in the air. Chris talk back 07:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Since it is a local government, then it should be smerged into the town article. --Idont Havaname 00:06, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
(To clarify: We don't write articles on individual city halls, fire stations, or any other institutions of local government... except for cities with large metropolitan areas.) --Idont Havaname 00:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Smerging it into the town or district article would also satisfy me. --Idont Havaname 00:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • keep and please write more about this school it is important Yuckfoo 01:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. I see this page as much more likely to grow than the underdeveloped Wayzata School District page it is proposed to be merged into. People attend, and are familiar with, schools, not districts. Turnstep 01:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. In the future, please keep comments such as "NN akle biter farm" to yourself. Silensor 19:42, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep.  ALKIVAR™ 23:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Anything below the High school level --Jaranda(watz sup) 02:22, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete not encylopedic and nothing would be lost by deletion. Merge is not an option since it counts as a keep for the article and not the information. Vegaswikian 05:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - Non notable. I have no idea why so many people think that schools should be automatically included no matter what. It's not like its a university which conducts research, nor has it any notable alumni, nor has some major event ever happened there. So the argument is that this school exists, well so does the fire station, community centre, newsagents, corner shops and public toilets. - Hahnchen 04:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.