Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big Three (Canadian Universities)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 07:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big_Three_(Canadian_Universities)

Delete. This article contains vanity. It is a mere showcase of bias editors boosting the image of the three universities. The "Big Three" maybe heard by speech, but is rarely recognised on paper and therefore unencyclopedic. The article is not notable and does not fit the critera like the "G-10" article. The information can also be misleading, especially on "Rankings". This year, 10 universities withdrew from the "credible" Macleans ranking of universities. These universities questioned the validity of the surveys conducted. (University of Toronto included) Hence, it is safe to reason the surveys by Macleans are unreliable. Also, the statement In international university rankings such as the Academic Ranking of World Universities (conducted by Shanghai Jiao Tong University), the University of Toronto and McGill University generally alternate for the first and second highest ranked Canadian university. Queen's is generally third or fourth is untrue. Queens University does not fall in the third or fourth rank. It is not even in the top 100 universities according to Shanghai Jiao Tong University. I would like to add "Harvard of the North" statement is a personal opinion. The sources used to justify that statement is not credible at all. Dvb 15:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as vanity and under WP:V. From what I can find, the term has never been used by the media (or anyone in particular). Also, "Harvard of the North" or "Harvard of Canada" has also been used to describe the University of Waterloo and University of British Columbia and is highly subjective and often ignored. UofT was also one of the universities to withdraw from Maclean's due to cited inaccuracy in the survey, so that ranking is pretty clearly not reliable. --Wafulz 16:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, compare this statement in the article:

All three universities are very well-known inside Canada, and are often familiar to people in other countries. They are all public universities, funded in part by the government (as are the majority of Canadian universities). All were founded before Canadian confederation, making them some of the oldest universities in Canada.

The University of Toronto, Queen's University and McGill University have been careful to preserve many parts of their proud history, retaining a number of traditions that can seem archaic and bizarre to outsiders, and even to insiders. Students at both institutions have variously been stereotyped as very intelligent, resourceful, and ambitious, but also as pretentious, arrogant, and elitist. The institutions themselves, while often seen as quaint and charming, are sometimes criticized as slow to change.

To this statement in Queen's-McGill rivalry:

Queen's and McGill are very well-known inside Canada, and are often familiar to people in other countries. Both are public universities, funded in part by the government. Both were founded before Canadian confederation, making them two of the oldest universities in Canada. They both have Scottish origins and were founded under Royal Charter from the Canadian Royal Family.

Queen's and McGill have been careful to preserve many parts of their proud history, retaining a number of traditions that can seem archaic and bizarre to outsiders, and even to insiders. Students at both institutions have variously been stereotyped as very intelligent, resourceful, and ambitious, but also as pretentious, arrogant, and elitist. The institutions themselves, while often seen as quaint and charming, are sometimes criticized as slow to change. There are sometimes accusations, often overstated, in Canada that students from less affluent backgrounds are at a disadvantage when applying, and that both institutions lack socio-economic diversity within their student body.

Another comparison between articles:

Over the last few years, Canadian universities have been subjected to the increasing popularity of national and international university rankings, which rank different schools based on the inspected quality of their teaching and research, as well as other criteria, such as spending on facilities and dropout rates. The University of Toronto, Queen's and McGill have been a constant presence at the top end of the ranking, never appearing outside the overall top five, although their dominance in individual subjects is often challenged by other institutions.

In international university rankings such as the Academic Ranking of World Universities[5] (conducted by Shanghai Jiao Tong University), the University of Toronto and McGill University generally alternate for the first and second highest ranked Canadian university. Queen's is generally third or fourth, contending with the research-intensive University of British Columbia (Queen's suffers in international rankings due to it's focus on undergraduate education vs. research).

Maclean's magazine rates Canadian universities each year based on factors such as the student-to-faculty ratio, the number of library holdings per student, the number of scholarships available per student, class sizes, number of tenured faculty, etc. In the 2005 overall rankings, McGill and the University of Toronto tied for first, while Queen's took the fifth spot [6].

From the Queen's-McGill article:

Over the last few years, Canadian universities have been subjected to the increasing popularity of national and international university rankings, which rank different schools based on the inspected quality of their teaching and research, as well as other criteria, such as spending on facilities and dropout rates. Queen's and McGill have been a constant presence at the top end of the ranking, never appearing outside the overall top five, but their dominance in individual subjects is often challenged by other institutions.

The older and larger McGill typically places higher in international university rankings such as the Academic Ranking of World Universities (conducted by Shanghai Jiao Tong University), although this can sometimes be attributed to McGill's greater emphasis on research and the natural sciences. Queen's has traditionally put more of a focus on undergraduate education, electing to keep a smaller undergraduate population and maintain a higher professor/student ratio.

Maclean's magazine rates Canadian universities each year based on factors such as the student-to-faculty ratio, the number of library holdings per student, the number of scholarships available per student, class sizes, number of tenured faculty, etc. McGill consistently places higher than Queen's. In 2006, however, Maclean's surveyed undergraduates at universities across Canada, creating "the most complete university student assessment results that have ever been made public". [citation needed] In this set of surveys, overall, Queen's was ranked the number one university in Canada [citation needed].

This article is basically a copy of the Queens-McGill rivalry with UofT thrown in. --Wafulz

• Delete. Doesn't meet WP:V. Is POV, total vanity and the phrase is not part of popular culture. I've lived in Ontario, Canada my entire life and attended university in the province and I've never once heard the phrase "Big Three Universities" or "Harvard of the North". Maybe it's used by a few admissions officers or fundraisers on the campuses of these so-called "Big Three", but nowhere else. Any useful information on this page is better suited on the individual school pages. CindyLooWho 16:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Per above. I am a graduate of one of these schools, and this is the first time I have heard the term 'Big Three' used this way. Eron 17:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I've also never heard of this term to refer to these schools, despite having attended one of them, and having spent time at all three. It also seems like an arbitrary grouping of schools. (eg Why Queen's and not, say, UBC instead?) Unless the author (or someone else) can comes up with at least one reference that this term actually exists, the issue seems pretty clear... Chartreuse green 17:45, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as a Canadian who grew up in Toronto, I've never heard this tterm used, and cannot find a good refernce through googling. It's vanity. -- Whpq 18:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. The G-10 is notable, this is vanity. BoojiBoy 00:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. I never heard of this before. Measured by international and national rankings, you'd have to say the BIG 3 are: Toronto, McGill, and UBC, with the University of Alberta usually in the mix.
• Delete. I have also never heard this term used in Canada. Deet 17:17, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. per above. Bucketsofg✐ 04:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.