Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Eine

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus but leaning towards delete. Yamamoto Ichiro 会話 03:00, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ben Eine

Ben Eine (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Author contested {{prod}}. Non-notable local street artist. Yahoo! search yields no sources [1] other than WP article and own personal website. Google search at least yields one third party source, www.artofthestate.co.uk, but that is all. (Note: I disregarded the German websites as "Eine" is a common German word.) 12 Noon 2¢ 00:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • delete per nom. Also, article was proded numerous times with it's most popular editor removing templates and AFD before without authority. This kind of behavior is unacceptable and should automatically nominate it for SPEEDY DELETION. MiracleMat (talk) 01:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. Where is your evidence for this "unacceptable" behaviour? Looking through the article history I can see that a prod template was added, and was then removed in complete accordance with policy. An AfD template then went on which was not removed. If the article really had been prodded numerous times then it would have been the person who reinstated the prod template who was behaving unacceptably. See WP:PROD. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep What a popular editor does to the AFD template has nothing to do with what the article's ultimate fate should be. However, the article definitely needs to be expanded. Google search turns up several results. The article can and needs to be expanded and wikified, but should not be deleted. Timmehcontribs 01:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete - Google searching, Google News searching, Yahoo searching, etc. turn up a smattering of hits, but the majority of these seem to be either user-created sites or blogs ([2], [3]) or promotions for exhibitions or products ([4], [5], [6]). In other words, there don't seem to be any reliable secondary sources discussing the artist, which is the primary requirement of WP:BIO. While it's certainly possible that this artist will be notable someday (and thus well-deserving of an article), this is not a valid reason to keep the article in the present. --jonny-mt 02:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Changed to Weak keep. Some level of notability is demonstrated by the sources noted below, although I can't verify the nature of that coverage. --jonny-mt 14:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete per Jonny. Bottom line: just not up to WP:BIO. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 04:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete, per WP:BIO and WP:V. Lankiveil (talk) 13:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC).
  • I was attracted by the Tower Hamlets mention, and checked out the link. There are several photographs of graffiti, and among those is one of a letter which I suppose we are led to assume is by Ben Eine. Not a reference at all. Shame. I like the idea of having articles on street artists - but we need more reliable references than a Flickr account. Such is the problem I suppose of being a street artist - there aren't many reliable sources. I do think we need to address the problem of "reliable" sources for people who are working in "unreliable" fields. Unfortunately under current guidelines we have to delete [keep] this one. But we really should be working to address the problem of how to verify topics that don't come under the glare of the conventional sources. SilkTork *What's YOUR point? 19:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Changed to Keep with the link provided by So-So Reverso. That's a reliable source. SilkTork *What's YOUR point? 20:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep...which of course I would say as I am the infamous "most popular editor"! I'm sorry if I have offended MiracleMat by removing an AFD but when I read "You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to its deletion for any reason." on the AFD notice I thought it meant I could remove this message if I objected to the article's deletion. Apologies for my misunderstanding. Hopefully my mistake should not influence anyone regarding the inclusion of this subject on Wikipedia. Ben Eine is an important street artist in London and Europe. He is, without question, the most prolific street artist in London at present. He is a contemporary of Banksy and indeed the pair did many works together in their early years. Whilst Banksy has gone on to eclipse every other UK street artist, Eine is probably the next most famous along with d*face http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%2AFace . Street art is an important period in contemporary art and has recently been embraced by all major auction houses. Despite this much of it can still be considered vandalism and is not covered by the mainstream news websites. Eine is regularly highlighted by the two most important urban art news websites - woostercollective http://www.woostercollective.com/2007/08/eine_mash_the_tate.html and juxtapoz http://www.juxtapoz.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1288&Itemid=50 Eine's work is also beginning to be assimilated into modern culture. A music group Alphabeat have appropriated his lettering on all their publicity material http://www.thisisalphabeat.com/ and his work is often the subject of many photographers as can be evidenced on flickr http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=eine Finally I feel that Wikipedia is an ideal place for people to initially discover up to the minute contemporary art and use the links to find out more. And another thing... if a decision is reached to keep this page then if someone can point me in the direction of a template I should be using then I will gladly incorporate it. Robertlondon (talk) 00:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC).
  • Keep Ben Eine is a leading figure in the street art scene also a famous printer - the article need more pictures and has to be bigger finding articles on yahoo or not doesn't mean anything - if he is not on yahoo he has to be here - Otomi
  • Keep As one of the moderators of a street art forum wallkandy.info I would say that Eine is a leading british street artist. There are numerous examples of his street work in London. For example on rivington street there is a huge work which says "Mash the Tate". He is also a very skilled screen printer. Pezlow —Preceding unsigned comment added by Perryhill (talk • contribs) 08:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep he is an important street artist and printer, and plays a major part in todays scene . pokerdonp —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokerdonp (talk • contribs) 17:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. This man is a printing legend,thats before we even get to his fantastic street art letters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rabbitlegs (talk • contribs) 19:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep The very nature of illegal street art makes anonymity (and therefore not doing interviews left right and center) crucial. Lack of online reference material does not make this artist Non-notable. He is featured prominantly in page 20 of the newly published Street Renegades book (http://www.amazon.com/Street-Renegades-New-Underground-Art/dp/1856695298), and also in this month's Creative Review magazine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by So-So Reverso (talk • contribs) 19:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Those sound very nice, although I did an in-book search at Amazon and nothing came up. If you have access to these sources, would you mind adding some specific information into the article based on them (see WP:V and WP:CS for information on verifiability and citing sources respectively)? I'd love to see the article improve to the point where my arguments are no longer valid. --jonny-mt 04:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Click on the Look Inside feature, click on table of Contents. You'll notice that there's a chapter - three/four pages (20 - 24) on Eine. To have a chapter on him in a published book meets WP:Bio. SilkTork *What's YOUR point? 08:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
They my opinion is changed. I can't fully support it without being able to more closely examine the type of coverage in the book, but neither can I claim that the subject hasn't been written about. Four pages isn't much, but if they cover him exclusively they should be enough. --jonny-mt 14:51, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.