Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bay Area Shiite-Muslims Association

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 15:49, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bay Area Shiite-Muslims Association

This was an interesting case. The article is terrible POV but it also brings up another issue (in my mind at least). Are Muslim organizations in cities notable? There is no information in the article that says how big the organization is and I didn't see any information on the website. I'm also not particularly deletionist but I thought we need to address the implications of keeping an article like this. What is the threshold for keeping an article about any locally based religious organization? There are no real outside sources (that I could find) other than the organizations itself which created problems in my mind. Organizations like ISNA have national media discussing them but I don't think this organization really has anything. I am also thinking of putting Al-Hajj Samer Mohamad Bazzi up for deletion for the same basic reasons since his notoriety is derrived from this organization. I don't have strong feelings on this issue exactly (besides NPOVing the article) but I do want to see discussion. gren グレン 07:41, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

• Borderline KeepDelete. Based on further research by Durova and other editors, changed vote. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 19:27, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete although my vote doesn't answer the larger question about Muslim organizations in general. This group is less than a year old and gets virtually no Google hits other than Wikipedia and its own website. Claims no affiliation with a larger Muslim organization with which it might be merged (I'd vote for that if I could). We can't lower the notability bar this far for anyone. Durova 11:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
  • One would think there must be dozens of Shiite mosques in that large metropolitan area. This organization doesn't even appear on any of their websites. Durova 18:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Digging in the history and contribs logs, this article has only been edited (apart from VfD and POV tags) by User:Sambazzi, who is also the only author on Al-Hajj Samer Mohamad Bazzi, where he tells us that he is the founder of this Association. His other contributions include much linkspam, [1], [2], [3] and the creation of Category:Shiite Organisations, sole member, the Bay Area Shiite-Muslims Association, and Category:Religious activists, sole member, himself. The author appears to be using WP for self-promotion, and I suspect he and his organisation are non-notable. Local religious organisations would have to be well-known, with (verifiable) memberships in the thousands or tens of thousands, and a significant media presence, IMO. --Squiddy 13:40, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I agree with the above points. Nn as it stands per Durova, with vanity/self-promo thrown in per Squid. And to that last point, please nominate Al-Hajj Samer Mohamad Bazzi as well. Eusebeus 14:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN. --JJay 02:40, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Unless the lack of credible sources is remedied, this appears to violate Wikipedia:Verifiability --redstucco 09:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.