Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Baron Barrymore Halpenny

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-14 11:23Z

[edit] Baron Barrymore Halpenny

Baron Barrymore Halpenny (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Claims notability as commercial artist, but the only sources available on the Web are his own sites. I am not able to verify the claimed independent coverage. NawlinWiki 16:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete. I can't find any sources to confirm notability by googling. -FisherQueen (Talk) 19:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete no independent critical reviews nor any of his art contained in any significant collections, probably self-projection AlfPhotoman 20:19, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Wow, he's just done it all. And so young. Delete per nom and FisherQueen and AlfPhotoman. Freshacconci 20:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
  • DO NOT DELETE Just one moment please! First what does one mean by self-projection? And what is this about him being so young? The papers don't seem to share your views. His father is Bruce Barrymore Halpenny, his mother Marian Rose Halpenny, so it stands that he will be in the right environment for the arts in one form or another. All so eager to delete, just because you cannot find him on the internet? Why not check the newspapers or magazines like I did, some of which are listed on his article. I would also like to point out that he has not paid me nor do I know him personally, and I will take extreme offence if this is in anyway implied. Self projection, really I ask you?!

Goldburg 08:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment!

Interesting topic and am suprised he is being considered for deletion, but then, that is just my view. I can confirm that Baron Barrymore Halpenny is the son of Bruce Barrymore Halpenny. What has not been said here, or anywhere else for that matter, is that Mr Halpenny’s son, Baron, illustrates many pictures in his fathers books, he also has designed many book covers, including the Ghost Stations series that his father wrote. So when you are looking at a book cover, you may be looking at Baron Halpenny’s work, whether you regard that as notable, I really can’t say, though I personally would have thought it was and certainly from who his father is. I cannot comment on any of his cartoons in newspapers or magazines as I have not seen them, but his work that I have seen in his fathers books are exceptionally good and of a high standard. That is as much as I can offer in this discussion, as it is Mr Halpenny’s historical work, especially airfield histories, that I am more interested in and most of his books I have.

James Dunston 11:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)— James Dunston (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Comment. Being someone's son does not establish notability. Freshacconci 10:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Only 23 Google hits, none of them, as far as I can tell, the least bit reliable? Not even close. --Calton | Talk 04:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • The world is mad! First I would like to say that there are artists in Wikipedia that have less google hits, so I find people on here are hypocritical, narrow minded and petty.

To top it all, at long last I have had a reply from the artist, who has had a look at the Wikipedia. It was a nice email, but alas, well I’ve pasted some of what he says

“ Thank you for your email and as I do warn, I am busy so don't get much time for emails etc. I’ve had a look at this wikipedia, and I have to admit, I had not heard of it before, but then my Internet involves my Websites, Yahoo, Hotmail and Google. I find the Internet takes up too much time and I’m not much of a fan of it.

However, I am amazed at seeing so much information about myself, and they have certainly been very busy, but then much can be found from the newspapers and my own Website along with where my Work appears. I see that there is a discussion to delete this and (I’m sorry if this may upset you) I really don't mind if they do. You see if I want someone to know about me, I would much rather they come to my Website … that is why I had them done for me.

My websites are part portfolios for such as publishers and agencies and my baronhalpenny.com site is for people who buy or are interested in my paintings.

In your discussion I note some very snide remarks (another reason why I like to keep things contained onto my websites only), one remark is, "Wow, he's just done it all. And so young", this I think was meant to be a catty remark, though I like the young bit ... I have done much, but not it all. I did do the Isle of Man DC-3 first day cover when I was 14 (not 15 as stated) and I was on the front page of the regional paper for this. I am also proud of creating Shaftism and love doing Cartoons and Illustrations.

I do however like the article of my father, he has done a lot and much, much more than has been put there, and should be acknowledged for his Work, much of it pioneering. His own personal military history would fill several sections of that website.

Anyway, once again thank you for e-mailing me, and my advice is not to get too wrapped up in the Internet. It’s always good to get a reality check. When I am abroad and especially in Italy I often visit the local War Cemeteries as a mark of respect. They made the supreme sacrifice for us to be here today and should never be forgotten. Seeing the graves row after row, helps to put things in perspective.

 ”

He does say more more, but is merely thanking me politely and asking my opinions and thoughts on the paintings I saw of his in Italy. It's like I've gone to all this trouble on Wikipedia for nothing. So I leave it to you! He would like it removed! But even so, I still feel he is notable and people will look him up, so should we make it an artist stub? This way it can be expanded at any future date. At least salvage something from my work! I have to say he is a very nice young man, it's just a pity he doesn't want to be in the Wikipedia.

Goldburg 11:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

  • First I would like to say that there are artists in Wikipedia that have less google hits...
  • Name three. --Calton | Talk 19:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. I'm the one who made the "Wow, he's just done it all. And so young" comment above, and I do apologize for the sarcasm. When I made that comment it was with the belief that the subject himself had written this article. I'm getting tired of self-promotional articles and I responded as such. It's clear that the subject did not write the article and it's also clear that the author(s) are sincere. I still feel the artist has not reached notability at this point, and the standards of wikipedia maintain that independent sources are important for establishing notability. Wikipedia isn't meant to be a directory, nor an extension of a personal website. However, I don't think this was the intent of the authors. The artist may be notable some day. As for other artists with less notability, this may be because no one has stumbled those articles yet. Wikipedia is huge. But I would be interested in someone passing along the names of those articles to my talk page. I do believe in standards for wikipedia, and although it is very subjective on what is and isn't notable, some basic rules can be established. (That's why there's no article on me!). As for reducing the article to a stub that is built up as the artist establishes more notability, I'd have no problem with that. If the subject wants the article deleted outright, an administrator can do that, and it can be protected so google searches won't find negative terms associated with the artist (correct me if I'm wrong about that one). Also, if an administrator wishes to delete my first comment, I wouldn't object. Freshacconci 14:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Artist Stub I will try to make this article an Artists Stub, if this is okay? If anyone here would like to help me please? Freshacconci is agreeable to this and I hope others are as well. I do do it reluctantly I might add, but at this moment in time I think this might be the best solution. The more notable the artist becomes, remember I started the article. You may all thank me later.

James Dunston has pointed out that the artist has created several book covers and even if these are for his father’s books, this is merely a collaboration. The publishers wouldn’t have used the artwork if it were not any good. Let’s face it, the family are talented and obviously work together. If Baron Barrymore Halpenny created the covers for the Ghost Stations series that would be 8 books he has designed and if you go to Amazon.co.uk, you will see it has a good following and are popular books. But of course, as the book cover illustrator he will not be mentioned on Amazon or the web. How many book cover artists are mentioned?

I have asked James Dunston to provide a list of the books that he knows the Artist has worked on, seeing as he has Bruce Barrymore Halpenny’s books. One point I would like to raise is that someone has put “James Dunston (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.” Next to his name. This “topic” is about Baron Barrymore Halpenny and James Dunston has made it clear that he is interested in Bruce Barrymore Halpenny’s historical work, especially airfield histories. That is a different topic to this one.

I still say Baron Barrymore Halpenny is notable and you cannot deny what he has done and is continuing to do. Even if he himself does not wish to be listed (he didn’t say not to, just that he wouldn’t mind if he wasn’t and NawlinWiki says The wishes of the subject of an article are usually not controlling.), his achievements and continued achievements warrants him a place in the Wikipedia, for people will look him up and it is the responsibility of a credible encyclopaedia to be useful and informative with credible information available to the user. My father always told me you have to list with an open mind and not be swayed by opinions.

Goldburg 10:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.