Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bab el wad
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was keep. —Cleared as filed. 03:21, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Bab el wad
Bab al-Wad is the Arabic name of a place on the Tel-Aviv-Jerusalem highway (Sha'ar Hagai in Hebrew). It is not a name of any convoy, as far as I know, the convoy described in this article is probably a reference to the Hadassah medical convoy massacre, which did not go through Bab al-Wad. There is no settlement in the place, only a road interchange, and otherwise it is only notable as an old Israeli Independence War song (as the article correctly notes) which is in itself unnotable. Doron 07:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Weak keep Seems to be verifiable if relatively minor event, see e.g. [1] Dlyons493 Talk 10:04, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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- Lots of convoys went through Bab al-Wad during the war, because it is on the highway to Jerusalem, as I have noted, but there was no convoy named "Bab al-Wad" as far as I know. There must be thousands of songs on that website, we can't have an article for each. Is there something special about this particular song that warrants an article?--Doron 11:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Agree with what you say re this being the location of ongoing conflict in the struggle for control of the highway during the blocade of Jerusalem and I can't verify this specific convoy from here. I was starting from the premise that geographic locations should be kept and still think that they should. I now feel it would be best to emphasise the location and the context rather than one incident probably not especially notable among many fairly similar. The historic specifics of this article could maybe be merged somewhere else? Dlyons493 Talk 15:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I think the location itself is not particularly notable, the whole corridor to Jerusalem saw fighting during the war. If the only information we have about this place is that it is on the way to Jerusalem (and thus saw fighting) and that a song was written about it, I don't thing this is enough for an article, and this information can be merged into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War article.--Doron 20:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- I've no objection to a merge of the incident(s) - not that there's much to merge. There's a web ref 22 mars- Une violente bataille se déclenche à Bab El Wad (Shaar Hagaï), lors de lattaque dun convoi de trente camions et de sept véhicules blindés. (Summary: 22nd March attack on a convoy of 30 trucks and 7 armoured vehicles). There was protacted fighting between Givati and Harel Brigades with the ALA forces and irregulars later on in May. It looks to me like there was an Arab village in Bab el wad in 1948 - does that seem correct to you? For me, that would add to the interest of the place. Dlyons493 Talk 22:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- There was an Arab village nearby, named Dayr Ayyub. There was also an old caravan inn, which still stands. Now there's a petrol station.--Doron 01:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
- I've no objection to a merge of the incident(s) - not that there's much to merge. There's a web ref 22 mars- Une violente bataille se déclenche à Bab El Wad (Shaar Hagaï), lors de lattaque dun convoi de trente camions et de sept véhicules blindés. (Summary: 22nd March attack on a convoy of 30 trucks and 7 armoured vehicles). There was protacted fighting between Givati and Harel Brigades with the ALA forces and irregulars later on in May. It looks to me like there was an Arab village in Bab el wad in 1948 - does that seem correct to you? For me, that would add to the interest of the place. Dlyons493 Talk 22:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I think the location itself is not particularly notable, the whole corridor to Jerusalem saw fighting during the war. If the only information we have about this place is that it is on the way to Jerusalem (and thus saw fighting) and that a song was written about it, I don't thing this is enough for an article, and this information can be merged into the 1948 Arab-Israeli War article.--Doron 20:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Agree with what you say re this being the location of ongoing conflict in the struggle for control of the highway during the blocade of Jerusalem and I can't verify this specific convoy from here. I was starting from the premise that geographic locations should be kept and still think that they should. I now feel it would be best to emphasise the location and the context rather than one incident probably not especially notable among many fairly similar. The historic specifics of this article could maybe be merged somewhere else? Dlyons493 Talk 15:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Lots of convoys went through Bab al-Wad during the war, because it is on the highway to Jerusalem, as I have noted, but there was no convoy named "Bab al-Wad" as far as I know. There must be thousands of songs on that website, we can't have an article for each. Is there something special about this particular song that warrants an article?--Doron 11:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- keep Cursory Google search shows this place is of considerable historic interest, from at least 1948 Arab-Israeli War and probably earlier. E.g., former PM Rabin mentions it in a speech found here [2]
" I remember the cars in flames on the road at Bab-el-Wad, whose drivers gave their lives trying to break the siege of Jerusalem. " --FRS 21:03, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
- Keep --Rogerd 03:01, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
