Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azdrubal Fontes Bayardo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was to keep. RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 06:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azdrubal Fontes Bayardo

A Formula One driver who never qualified for a race and didn't even register a time in the one race he tried to quallify for - non-notable Robertsteadman 21:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - this wasn't his only race by any means - just his only Championship Grand Prix. That's the problem with a lot of these articles - they suggest that a driver only raced in F1, which is never the reality. AFB almost certainly took part in other Grand Prix and many other types of race as well. It's just a matter of finding out what else he did. He would never have made it as far as a Championship Grand Prix without achieving at least a reasonable amount elsewhere. We need someone with some time to exapnd the article, not delete it. Bretonbanquet 21:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - the article has existed for well over a year - there's been plenty of time and there seems to be no other info available - back then some "rickh kids" simply bought their way to car seats.... maybe he didn't do anything else. Anywa, with no evidence, no achievement and over a year for the article to expand..... Robertsteadman 11:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete Easily fails WP:BIO's criteria for sportspeople. A Google search of "Azdrubal Fontes Bayardo" brings up less than 10 unique results; of these, half are from WP and mirrors, and the other half list his name and nothing more. Thus, there is no verifiable information about him, so even if he did race in other circuits, there's no way he was notable enough (or, if he was, no way to prove it) to merit inclusion in WP. -- Kicking222 23:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, after just a minute or two on Google, I have found several things about him, such as the fact that he won the first race at El Pinar in Montevideo, in a Maserati 4CLT-Chevrolet. His middle name was Esteban, he apparently died just recently on July 9, and his nickname was Pocho. Just skipping over some South American sites, I can see a few results for him. When you Google, you do clearly have to bear in mind that people's names can be mispelt, particularly in this guy's case - and his surname 'Fontes' is often mistaken for a middle name. Rather than making assumptions about his career that you weren't able to confirm, leave this article for a while so that it can be expanded. I have flagged it on the Project page, so someone (or I can do it myself when I have time) will come and put some flesh on the bones. Bretonbanquet 17:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could provide links to these articles? As for leaving it a while - it has had well over a year. Robertsteadman 17:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's had over a year, but there are a lot of driver articles out there that need work, and as you have seen, Fontes Bayardo isn't the easiest to research. I know you're just gagging to delete it, but rest assured there is more information out there if you know how to look for it properly. In order to defeat the fatwa on this article, I will attempt to expand it today. Bretonbanquet 17:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Even with more information he is still non-notable and does not meet the criteria fro inclusion. Robertsteadman 18:36, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, you'd better start deleting the other dozens and dozens of similarly notable or non-notable racing drivers then. What has made you judge Fontes Bayardo to be non-notable? There's nothing in WP:BIO which suggests he's non-notable, having competed in motor racing at the highest level in South America during the 1950s. Bretonbanquet 19:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree -there is much to delete on WP because some fanatics have added it but these articles do not meet notability levels - I'm sure their mums are proud but that's about it. Robertsteadman 19:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Instead of being flippant, why don't you actually explain why you have decided that Fontes Bayardo is not notable? He has won Formula 1 races in South America - he is notable. I see that college football players who haven't actually played for their team are notable - is this some kind of bad joke? Bretonbanquet 19:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I appreciate that to non-followers of motorsport, Bayardo may seem too obscure but I'm afraid that not being able to appreciate the importance of his exploits shouldn't be a reason for deleting the article. The South American racing scene at the time was thriving and was almost as important as the European scene. A driver who did well in the South American formulae therefore cannot be ignored simply because he was a 'rich kid' or because he doesn't appear in a lot of english language websites. Personally I find wikipedia is enjoyable BECAUSE of articles like this which educate and inform, instead of the usual tittle tattle about obscure local 'celebrities' that others deem worthy of gracing the internet. I do agree however that the article ought to be expanded a little more.Type-R 00:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep At least as notable as the many NCAA athletes that pass SPORTS_BIO due to wikipedia's pro-US-college sports bias. -- GWO

Surely that's a reason to delete them as well as this rather than fill up WP with non-notables? ;-)Robertsteadman 08:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, yes. But WP:BIO is policy, so the least we can do is apply that policy even-handedly w.r.t. people with the affrontery not to be Americans. -- GWO

Comment - I have expanded this article a little more, to include AFB's two race wins at the highest level of South American motor racing. This alone is enough to merit his inclusion. Bretonbanquet 12:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Measurements of "notability" by things like Google are practically irrelevant here. An American football player could be 'linked' to the New England Patriots and suddenly there are 1000s of articles about him on the internet. Had Bayardo been racing today, there would most likely be 100s of articles on the internet about him too. This does not make him less notable, just because the internet was not around at that time for thousands of amateur experts or news writers to write about his latest performance. Winning the aforementioned races is huge compared to the notability claims of a Doctor Who villain who appeared in one series, or a footballer who made 2 appearances for Arsenal and then went out on loan, but these produce 2,900 and 46,200 Google hits respectively. Deleting this article would be showing blatant bias to those living in the time of the internet, where the slightest newsworthy piece of information produces dozens and dozens of webpages. [/end rant, I hope you get my point] – AlbinoMonkey ^(Talk) 12:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Any idea how few Uruguayan drivers made it even this close to F1?! Uruguay being one of the poorer relations in the South American motor racing scene. A scene which stands in a similar relationship to Europe as it does in Soccer (no, I don't normally call it that, but I'm guessing that link is at least unambiguous!) - i.e. pretty important. Albinomonkey also makes an excellent point regarding 'Internet bias'. I also note that WP:BIO is explicitly not policy. I wouldn't personally have an objection to some of these drivers being grouped into larger articles though - Uruguyan Racing Drivers if anyone wants to put the work in on the redirects, but I know some others have different views on that. 4u1e 18:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.