Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Avdy Andresson

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus.  RasputinAXP  c 14:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Avdy Andresson

Either non-notable or just non-existant. One of the referenced sources doesn't mention him, the other just mentions an "Audy Andresson" buried in a cemetery. This is what Google turns up.[1] Mad Jack O'Lantern 19:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nod Mad Jack O'Lantern 19:41, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. -- Kicking222 19:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep & Comment --- Firstly, Andresson may not be "well known" to most Americans, but he certainly is to most Estonians. He was a significant member of the Estonian Government in Exile during the Soviet years. As for my comment, I can assure you, as creator of the article, I am not in the habit of "making people up" for Wiki entries - as my other contributions will show. And he is indeed included in the link you claiim he isn't. ExRat 20:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[2] NOTE: Inscribed on Audy Andresson's Headstone is the following,

"Colonel of Cavelry and Tanks War Minister and Commander In Chief of Estonian Goverment in Exile 1972-1990, WW I Czars Cavalry 1914-1918, Estonian War of Independance - Cavalry 1918-1920, WW II German Cavalry and Tanks 1941-1945"

• keep I'm inclined to trust ExRat here although it would be nice if ExRat could give us some other sources. JoshuaZ 21:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as NN; I'm sorry, but I'd dispute the premise that he's "well known" to Estonians. (For one thing, he doesn't have an entry on the Estonian Wikipedia [3]) Probably very few editors could name, without looking it up, the contemporaneous US Secretaries of Defense in those same years. The degree to which 90-year-old WWI veterans are active, meaningful members of "government" would also be in question, I'm sure. RGTraynor 03:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep per ExRat. The degree to which anyone needs to be active or meaningful as the War Minister of a government in exile for 50 years, and without an army, is probably the answer to RGTraynor's question; I imagine it was a completely ceremonial duty. However, I have to say, I couldn't find him in http://worldstatesmen.org/Estonia.html either. It's a big page: ExRat, what section is he in, or how is his name spelled there? AnonEMouse (squeak) 14:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment - I have two things to add to this. Firstly, I have little doubt that this article I created was listed for deletion by Mad Jack O'Lantern as retaliation for for reverting one of his edits and finding an internet source which proved him to be wrong. It just so happened, the following day, my article came up for deletion by him. I think it is exceptionally poor form to not be able to work well with others. I generally try to work well with others and certainly never stoop so low in a pedantic war with someone as a revenge tactic. I am finding the whole thing petty and deplorable. I have been a member of Wikipedia for nearly a year now and have never had such a problem with another individual. I tended to use Wikipedia as as a personal hobby and rarely interacted with others (for good or bad). This really sours my experience.

Secondly, on Avdy Andresson - I would think (obviously, just my opinion) that someone who served with distinction in two world wars, was a government official, organized the Estonian Defence League in the 1970s and was the oldest living member of the Estonian Government in Exile (and from March 1, 1990 to June 20, 1990 techinically acting as Prime Minister) would be worthy of at least a stub article. I find it extraordinary that there are individual articles on each contestant (yes, even every losing contestant) of America's Next Top Model, yet my article on Andresson is considered "non-notable". ExRat 21:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Rather than getting into the personal conflict, can you tell us what you used for your sources? Just the gravestone? Did you know him personally? I still can't find Andresson in the page from that first link, can you help? AnonEMouse (squeak) 21:21, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I did not know the man personally - I had however heard of him. Apparently I am not the only one, considering someone else had left information on his talk page. I am currently unable to find the links that I had used to gather information on him. If this results in the article being deleted, then so be it. This is the only other link I could find currently, however it is not one of the links I had used prior: [4]. That is just for the verification that he is not an individual I "made up". I am not involved in a "personal confilct" with anyone, nor have I been. There is only one individual who is involved in a personal conflict, and that is the individual who listed the article for deletion in retaliation for another matter. If it's that big of a deal, just delete the thing, since I am unable to currently find the internet sources I used for the article. I look forward to all those "notable" articles on such contemporary greats as Alex Breckenridge, Ashley Black, Ebony Taylor and Diane Hernandez. ExRat 22:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

For the record, Alex Breckenridge, which I created, shows up on Google searches. All the info on it can be confirmed via a reliable first-hand source. That's why, for example, there's no question that page is notable. Mad Jack O'Lantern 23:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Y'know ... I'm really wanting now to see some sourcing, any sourcing, on this guy. First we're supposed to think he's notable because he served in two World Wars (like, oh, about ten million other people) and that he was a minister of a government-in-exile that wasn't internationally recognized (like, oh, many other such bodies). He doesn't show up on that Estonian website, he doesn't appear in the Estonian Wikipedia, and he has only eight Google hits, every single one which is either this article or a Wikimirror. Right now this article has no verifiability, and fails per WP:V. RGTraynor 00:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree. Almost any dispute or discussion on Wikipedia can be settled with the presentation of a reliable source. This should be no different. Mad Jack O'Lantern 01:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Following that link ExRat gave, it says that Avdy Andressen was active in this particular Estonian refugee community, serving as a leader in a couple civic organizations. No mention of being a government minister was made. RGTraynor 04:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
• Here's a source. [5] It's just a post on a message board, so wouldn't be enough to write an article by itself, but I think the statements on his gravestone are credible. Maybe we should bug this Erki Kangro person more for where there sources came from, but it's enough for me to keep my keep vote, above. AnonEMouse (squeak) 13:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.