Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arthur Carmazzi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Dreadstar † 06:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arthur Carmazzi

Arthur Carmazzi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Extremely aggressive wikispammer who has inserted himself and his spamlinks into several articles and has been reprimanded by other editors: [1]. Spam report is here: [2] He's a non-notable "motivational speaker" who has a grand total of two hits on Google News, one of which is his father's obituary from 1969: [3]. Also created the spam article Directive Communication, which is the name of his business, and which I'm going to AfD next. Qworty (talk) 19:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as non-notable individual. ♣♦ SmartGuy ♥♠ (talk) 20:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, not notable. MrPrada (talk) 21:14, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. Possibly even speedily per WP:CSD#A7. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, checked google news and other media sites and only found one thing on him which was just to annouce that he was speaking somewhere. 22:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Unnotable and as per above Fattyjwoods ^{(Push my button)} 02:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

my name is Marcie Coldwell, PR executive for Mr. Carmazzi, while i do understand that in the US, you may have specific criteria as notible, we can provide substantial "international" (within Asia and the Middle East) print (and some TV) coverage of Mr. Carmazzi and his Directive Communication methodology. also, we can provide Notable Organisations such as Emirates (also not a US organisation but still quite large)that will attest to the results this methodolgy provides. Mr. Carmazzi was also chosen as one of the top 30 leadership gurus in the world for his contibutions. all this is verifiable and we would gladly prvide scans of news article, TV coverage, radio interview recordings. of course they are all in Asia and the Middle East. also, while we did start the two articles, contrubutions to them were later made by others. for verification of the media and awards mentioned, please contact me at: marcie@directivecommunication.com - also, we made every attempt to make these as objective as possible to maintain the Wikipedia standards and respect its intention Carmaz (talk) 07:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC) additionally, i honestly do not see how you only get a few hits on google, perhaps you could type in "Arthur Carmazzi", "Arthur F Carmazzi" Carmaz (talk) 08:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

• Delete as admitted PR astroturfing spam. By your own words you have admitted that you are using Wikipedia to promote the man and his "program". Wikipedia is not free ad space. DarkAudit (talk) 14:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

if you read the articles, you will find we NEVER promoted his programs, ever! we gave general unbiased information! According to (Robert L. Heath, Encyclopedia of Public Relations). PR is is a management function that focuses on two-way communication and fostering of mutually beneficial relationships between an organization and its publics. it is NOT designed to "Promote" only to inform. when a company comes out with a new product there is a very big difference between the promotion, and the information that they are launching a product. information is published because it is newsworthy, promotion identifies the reasons, emotional and practical, to buy the product or service; then there is the call to action. we did none of that, only presented the facts - and, if by any means any wiki-master believes differently, we would gladly revise the objectivity to be within the appropriate standards. do not judge the quality of the information based on my job title... Please.

Marcie Carmaz (talk) 04:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

i find it interesting the editors of wikipeda will keep a quote by Mr Carmazzi in the leadership section, yet, delete his name from and credit from it. why? is that ethical by Wikipedia standards? "Leadership is not about changing the mindset of the group but in the cultivation of an environment that brings out the best (inspires) in the individuals in that group. Each individual has various environments that bring out different facets from their own identity, and each facet is driven by emotionally charged perceptions within each environment. To lead, one must create a platform through education and awareness where individuals fill each others needs. This is accomplished by knowing why people may react favorably to a situation in environment A, but get frustrated or disillusioned in environment B."

and, if wikipedia is in the information industry, it is inevitability reconcilable for PR, look up Robin Sharma, Ken Blanchard, Tom Peters well known in America, these pages contain information about these people and, while it is obecjtive (at least some of it), it is in essence PR. the question you should ask, is do people really want to know, if, no one cares, then, fine, delete delete delete, but what of the 36% HR professionals in Singapore who know who Arthur Carmazzi is (according to an independent research we engaged National University of Singapore to do). what of the over 260,000 people in Asia who have heard Mr Carmazzi speak, what of the millions who have seen him on TV or Print and want to find out more. the information on Wikipedia was specifically unbiased and written in a non-promotion standard (unlike other articles that are still up). if ANY of you are living in Asia, then i would have more confidence in your appreciation, or not, since at least you would have the exposure and be able to make intelligent decisions. and if you are not, then at least the desire to get the facts which we will gladly provide by email. we have offices in Bali, Singapore and Malaysia and anyone of you can call. i will provide the numbers.

please get the facts! first search google with "Arthur Carmazzi" and "Arthur F Carmazzi" there are over 9000 directly related pages in 6 different languages that i found. then, contact me for copies of print articles and TV (including the CNN of China called "Dialogue") that Mr. Carmazzi and the Directive Communication methodology have appeared in. let me send you the facts. Mr Carmazzi has made an impact here in Asia and the Middle East, we have the references, we have the proof. my email: marcie@directivecommuniation.com

W. C. Fields one said "don't confuse me with the facts, i have already made up my mind" we don't believe this to be wikipedia's philosophy. Carmaz (talk) 04:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - by the very nature of this discussion, we are attempting to work with and comply to Wikipedia criteria and standards. correct me if i am wrong, but it appears that the Wiki-spamers do not invest the time to prove their positions or offer proof of notability. i belive the most accurate information comes from the original source, as many organisational articles in wikipedia do.

marcie. Carmaz (talk) 09:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Carmaz is the spammer. I have now found definitive proof that Carmaz is the sock of the spamming dial-up 202.169.237.30. This dial-up was warned by other editors about spamming the Carmazzi links: [4]. The spam report is here: [5]. The proof that Carmaz and 202.169.237.30 are one and the same is right here, in the history of this very AfD: [6]. Appropriate action will be taken. Qworty (talk) 16:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
• Odd Six paragraphs or more in defense of a two sentence article. DarkAudit (talk) 16:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• in responce to DarkAudit i am pasting the original Arthur Carmazzi article for your reference:

Arthur F Carmazzi (born August 21, 1962) is an Italian American writer / speaker living in Asia and expert on Psychological applications to Leadership and Organisational Culture Enhancement and Development. He is mostly known for his contribution as the founder of the Directive Communication Methodology. Biography Carmazzi was born in Carson City, Nevada. He went to Carson High School and attended University of Nevada - Reno, Pacific University, and Montana State University majoring in various disciplines from business to psychology and international marketing to chemical and electrical engineering. While he attended these various universities over a 5 year period, he received no degree. He was hired as a Copywriter in his first job in Deco & Co. in 1986, in spite of his challenge of dyslexia and A.D.S., he was soon promoted to the youngest account executive in the history of the company. He left Deco on 1988 to build a small company he purchased – Frontier Corporate Kit Company – that dealt in corporate business structure to a legal clientele. He built the company to the 3rd largest of its kind in the United States. In 1990, he was stabbed in an attempted robbery where he almost lost his life. This event gave him new a new perspective in life so he sold his company and most of his positions then traveled the globe for 2 years to find his greater self. In 1992, he moved to South Korea as Managing Director to the Asian venture of the Grail Corporation, an American consulting company dealing in the creation of new retail distribution chains for B2B organisations. In 1997, Carmazzi’s success prompted him to start his own retail chain in Singapore. Within a year and a half, Carmazzi had not only lost everything, he found himself a half-million Singapore Dollars in Debt. He acclaims this experience as his first real lesson in how ego affects organisational effectiveness. Carmazzi was forced to go back into the corporate world in 1999 to repay his debt and fundamentally survive. Entering as a department head in a dysfunctional Multi-National, Carmazzi, considering himself a positive and hardworking individual, found himself being assimilated into the dysfunctional culture and taking on the negative characteristics of the culture such as blaming and being uncooperative. This conflict of identity eventually led Carmazzi to the research that founded the Directive Communication Methodology. After a few successes in applying the new Directive Communication method, including saving the organisation he worked for an additional $17,000 a week in wastage, Carmazzi formed his own firm to facilitate Directive Communication based Training and organisational development applications. In 2005, he began licensing Directive Communication to other trainers and consultants around the globe. . Bestselling author The 6 Dimensions of Top Achievers, a joint project with his friend David Rogers, was published in 2000, and became a bestseller in Singapore and then Malaysia. The book researched 50 different self-made millionaires from around the world and presented their strategies from a replicatable psychological perspective. In his more recent books, Carmazzi took lessons from his own life and failures and his take on the decision making process in relation to environment. In the December 2002 “Identity Intelligence” was published and ranked 32 in sales on the first day of release, only to be taken off the shelves by the threat of a law suit for improper structure in referencing of his research. When the matter was solved in Carmazzi’s favor 4 years later, the publishers no longer accepted the title for distribution. The book only sold about 12,200 copies at Carmazzi’s talks and website by 2006. Carmazzi now focuses on Leadership and Organisational Development and developing other Directive Communication certified trainers and consultants. He continues to write and speak about his applications of the Directive Communication methodology. His Asia headquarters is base in Bali Indonesia. In 2007, Carmazzi was awarded as the number 10 most influential leadership professional by Leadership Gurus International. Works 2000 – The 6 Dimensions of Top Acheivers (co-written with David Rogers) 2002 – Identity Intelligence 2005 – Leadership Intelligence – the force for making the right decisions for personal and professional success 2007 – Lessons from the Monkey King, leading change to create Gorilla Sized Results 2007 – The Culture Evolution handbook 2004 - 2007 The Directive Communication Facilitation Series (12 volumes) References Arthur F Carmazzi - official site Arthur F Carmazzi: Personal – Personal site Summary Biography from Leadership Gurus

Marcie. Carmaz (talk) 13:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

• in responce to "Carmaz is the spammer"

there is more than one person here, and while it is likely that the "inappropriate" link to Mr. Carmazzi's video to youtube came from this office, namely my assistant so I am responsible, we are NOT spammers and are trying to resolve this in an intelligent communicative manner, i personally do not appreciate being called names when we are trying to follow guidelines and regulation. To date, NO ONE has requested for the proof of notability we are more than happy to give. Have we made mistakes in guideline, yes, I, we, are not perfect but we do learn from our mistakes and we are commited to working within Wikipedia’s practices. Marcie. Carmaz (talk) 13:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment on Carmazzi spam. You have logged in and out of the Carmaz account while commenting on this AfD, revealing your ISP, and as I proved above, it is the same one that appeared in the Carmazzi spam report. We are not talking about the posting of a youtube video--we are talking about spamming links to your company within many different Wikipedia articles, such as Organizational culture, Organization development, Leadership, Leadership development, Transformational leadership, Industrial and organizational psychology, Customer service, and Motivational speaker. I spent an hour the other day deleting your spam from WP articles, and that doesn't include the time that other editors have spent deleting your spam from even more articles. The fact is that you are editing from an account that is guilty of WP:SPAM. Also, by commenting here in defense of your self-promotional articles and spamming activities, you are in violation of WP:COI. By using two different WP:single-purpose accounts to break these policies, you are in violation of WP:SOCK. So far, I count four different reasons for an admin to block you. I don't like to file incident reports on newbies, but you've been abusing Wikipedia for a long, long time now and this has to stop right now. Qworty (talk) 16:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: Non-notable. Explicitly fails WP:BIO. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment on Carmazzi spam and infringement on IP. by your own admition you have deleted Mr. Carmazzi's name from his quotes on the leadership section and the Transformational leadership section, i belive Wikipedia should source quotes and theories, i.e. Mr. Carmazzi's name. if you do not source the intelectual property, then anyone can claim it. Wikipedia is not supposed to be a source for infringement of IP rights. it is supposed to be a source where the public can gain "Reliable" information and know where it comes from. if you like what Mr. Carmazzi says, then i suggest you give him credit, if you do not wish to give him cretit or site the source, then delete the quotes from his writings too.

in reference to posting, we can admit, (and once again as a learning curve trying to work within the WP guidlines), to informational posts in Organizational culture, Organization development, Leadership, Leadership development, Transformational leadership, Industrial and organizational psychology, as these would be within Mr. Carmazzi's scope of expertise. We would not and have not to my knowlege put posts on Customer service, and Motivational speaker as this is NOT an area where we could contribute anything valuable.

again, please stop calling me names and assist us to work properly within the community, Mr. carmazzi is a great source of new information that has helped thousands of people and organisations. sharing wisdom is of benefit to everyone. as for proof, we would love to give you whatever proof you would like, i have left my email address and NO ONE has asked, is there another way to get you the proof? Carmaz (talk) 07:55, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Just read WP:RS and all of the associated policies that link off that page and follow the directions. The burden of proof is on you. I doubt it will do you any good, however, since Carmazzi isn't notable. Qworty (talk) 08:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: "violation of WP:SOCK" i just read this and it is blatently not true, we only have one account. if not singed in, it has never been intended to be deceitful, but there was never an alternate account. we are learning, and if you thinnk it will help, we can put out a note to our database for others from oround asia to write their own comments. this would at least be individuals who are exposed. would that be a better solution? then we do not need to get involved and there is not conflict of interest. although we believe the quality and neutrality is sommething we strive for then other Wikians can do the reaserch - and i can assure you these would come from all over asia, not just from our office in Bali. please let me know if that would be an appropriate course of action. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carmaz (talk • contribs) 09:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.