Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arroyo Seco Raceway

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus -- Samir धर्म 04:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arroyo Seco Raceway

Arroyo Seco Raceway (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This article fails notability. If we had articles on every small drag strip and race course in this country, we'd have a whole WikiProject on them. Diez2 00:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete- Deleting seems logical...--SUIT 01:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral, needs secondary sources, but if we have information about it, why not? The sheer number of possible articles is not a reason to exclude any one of them. Also, how can it fail notability? Which set of criteria are you applying here? Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 01:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Under the precedent "Small companies such as Sole proprietorships and closely held corporations are not generally notable (unless, of course, they have received significant press coverage)." There is no evidence presented that this race course has received significant press coverage, nor is it the site of any nationally or regionally notable race. Movementarian (Talk) 03:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• keep This isn't just a random small town racecourse. I agree with the premise if it WAS, but this raceway does receive some independant press. It appears to be a course used in Superbike racing series, and races there get covered by independant racing press. Some of these have been linked in the article itself, and the google search turns up some third-party press on races run there. Admitedly, it isn't Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but it seems to be notable within its own field. --Jayron32 03:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, sources cited seem to only "mention" the speedway, not be a study of it (or really assert its importance). I can't seem to find any better sourcing on Google, and the press coverage shown does not seem to meet notability.Change to keep, latest source cited provides evidence of notability and enough information for an article. Seraphimblade 05:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete two factors which would have convinced me on possible notiablity even though it lacks substancial media coverage. 1. Geographic connection it location Akela Flats, New Mexico is a red link so no article about there. The two towns its roughly between have articles yet neither mention the Raceway. 2. IMHO the best of the references is about a track record yet that person, Doug Chandler doesnt have an article either. It is on an incomplete list of Dragstrips but there are plenty of red links on that. Gnangarra 05:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • reply notability cannot be established or refuted inside the context of Wikipedia. Wikipedia isn't exhaustive on any subject. The fact that it doesn't appear here doesn't mean it isn't notable, it just means someone hasn't written an article yet. In light of the specific evidence provided below by Oakshade, the article looks more and more notable, since we now have evidence that it is important outside of wikipedia. --Jayron32 06:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

  response as I said the the media coverage IHMO didnt create notiability, given that I went looking for somewhere to suggest a possible merge as there was nothing so recommend deleting. I will say if those wanting to keep can commence some expansion, including links from other articles I'll change my position. Gnangarra 07:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

  • reply Just to add to comments on the current articles of nearby towns not yet mentioning this raceway, as a member of WikiProject Trains, I spend alot of gnome time insterting very notable and major train stations that serve major cities into those cities' articles; Los Angeles Union Station in Los Angeles and Gare Centrale in Montreal just to name a couple. Certainly those stations weren't not-notable just because editors failed to write about them for a while. --Oakshade 07:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Major US venue in the motorcycle racing world, particularly for Supermoto.. Found plenty of independent WP:V articles that are alot more than "mentions" of the speedway. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Also the venue of the New Mexico State Championship Series [6]. --Oakshade 06:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Reviewed new evidence, remain convinced of delete: Sources 1 and 6 are about a race. Source 2 is about a racer's association. Source 3, 4, and 5 are about individual racers. However, none seems to provide non-trivial information (besides name/phone #/location) of the raceway, which is what's under discussion here. Changed per source shown below. Seraphimblade 06:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for reading. No argument about the content of all of those articles. They are all notable races, racers and the organization (you're refering to the Arroyo Seco Motorcyclist Association) that this raceway is the location of and which independent WP:RS did articles of. --Oakshade 07:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Hawaii Raceway Park (in quotations) reveals over 17,000 results and it's not an article. This track in question only has 552 results. What more can I say? Insufficient notability. Also per Diez2. Sr13 06:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • That sounds like a reason to create that article, not delete this one. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 08:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment Agreed (though I'm for deletion myself), "X article isn't here" is no more a valid delete reason then "X article is here" is a valid keep. Seraphimblade 08:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment. Let me rephrase. This article does not have sufficient notability. Sorry my former explanation wasn't clear enough...I was using the reverse of the Pokemon test.
• Keep It seems to be a notable racetrack. Atlantis Hawk 09:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment. What makes it seem notable? Movementarian (Talk) 10:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep It is mentioned in several independent publications, even as the site of a race. That is borderline notability, compared to the vast majority of subjects of Wiki articles which lack even that. Edison 17:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Scienter 18:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Can you give a reason for this weak keep? Diez2 23:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Weak delete. Merely being the site of notable races does not automatically confer notability -- it's the races which are notable, not the racecourse. An article on the racecourse itself should ideally be supported by sources that are about the racecourse itself, not the races that take place there. — Haeleth Talk 22:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep It is notable because the races are notable. A race course article is mostly about the races held there. This article needs to be improved with the history of series racing and other notable races there. If you look at Indianapolis Motor Speedway, arguably the most notable race course in the US, for example, and cut out all of the parts pertaining to the races run there, it won't be that much bigger than this article. A course used by a series is notable. Dimitrii 16:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Further references added About the track not just races, it is good material to fill out the article, enchantment, the second largest publication in New Mexico Over one quarter of the state's residents receive this monthly publication. Dimitrii 16:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep current article as referenced, per commenters above. The creation of a Raceway WikiProject is not a bad idea. Yamaguchi先生 03:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. NN. WMMartin 16:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - needs more detail, but clearly notable. Pete Fenelon 00:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. It is easily conceivable that someone researching racing would want to know about this racetrack. Wikipedia is not paper. -THB 19:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Mexico-related deletions. -- Slgr@ndson (page - messages - contribs) 20:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.